Protecting The Bass Population?

[Jon]

"To me thats how utterly rediculous this discussion is."

Some of this, most of it boils down to one thing- there are two schools of thought and some gray area inbetween.

One- catch and release no matter what.

Two- catch and keep a limit of bass to eat.

Gray- catch and keep a few every once in a while; never keep bass with eggs (pro & con); never fish for bass on beds (pro & con)...

Divide these groups into two forums and never shall one look at the other's forum BECAUSE the catch and release people don't want to give away any information to help the catch and keep people kill bass.

That's a bit of the mindset of the guides, or most of them, on this forum. They cannot control who reads this but they can control what information they provide. When I say guides this includes other anglers who know and fish any lake as much as guides do. I'd say most are silent- some provide reports on their own sites and don't come on OAF. Some sell their reports to people who subscribe to their mailing lists. All is fine and good- to each his own.

But EVERYONE needs to understand what is fact on any forum- and be smart. It would be really stupid for anyone to come on any forum and thank, say a guide, for the fishing information he provided and follow by saying... "those bass sure tasted good and we had fish eggs for breakfast!" Extreme example I know but it gets my point across.

Phil, I don't know what to say accept I guess I'm in the wrong neighborhood. You know, I've appologised for what ever you or anyone here took offense to. But that little snipit that was offensive was'nt the whole sentence. What I said I did'nt think was all that bad.

So with that and the last post- quote, I'm REALLY done. my last post.

[Bill Babler]

Jon, I know your done, and I will say I love your pashion. But what Phil is saying, still stands, you have not read the entire thread, and your replys relate that. Before making responses please read carfully, and do not assume that the posters do not know of what they speak.

In State agencies, economics rules however much we would like to believe other wise. It is a fact.

For "Cripes Sakes, Quite appoligizing to everyone." Your thoughts are as important as anyone elses.

Read my post carefully, I don't make these things up. My contacts are at the head of MDC, and I know what I speak. If you think changes are made on Table Rock due to Bass populations reguardless of numbers, YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY WRONG..... Biologist do not make the limits, or set the harvest.

They do studies and make recommendations to a conservation board that is composed of business people. Read my post closly and you will see how limits are set. Stocking the resourse, as has already been stated, will never come into play, it is not an option. MDC does not stock and will not stock fish except for trout and paddle fish for reasons other that procreation, NOT HARVEST.

I love your guarantee of 100% if the fish populations dropped low enough MDC would restrict harvest. Who told you this? Were you not here in 1999 thru 2002. How low are you talking about and who told you this? Jon, we had over a 90% lake wide kill of the largemouth population, and a reduction of SM and Spotted bass, of percentages that were not calcuable, and the limit remained at 6 per person per day. How low are you talking, and who is giving you your information?

Jon, there is history here, along with area knowledge of the working of MDC on the Rock. If you are not part of this community it is hard to see, or for that matter under stand the economics of the region. We all read you as a stanch supporter, beliving limits are set with a harvest goal in mind, but that is not how the fishery opporates here. Never has and never will be, and is really not setup or intended to be.

If recommendations by lake biologist after the fish kill, were to lower the harvest to 3 bass per person per day and the retention limit was restriced to 6 bass total, after the second day, the ecomomic impact was estimated to be in the 100's of millions.

This was not a viable option. With creel harvest reported at less than a keeper bass at that time every 12 hrs. It took the limit out of the equasion, as for the most part people cannot catch them anyway. When the board sees from the creel studies that Joe Smo out of Desmoines is only catching 1 keeper a day, and then sees harvest data and economic impact it is a no brainer to leave the limits were they are.

Here is a shocker for you, that was related by a biologist friend, if the limits were set at 100 bass per day, do you think it would make a difference in the total number of harvestable bass in the lake. NO it would not.... Bass are released by 90 plus percent of bass fisherman. Those persons that retain bass for the most part fall into the current creel study of 1 keeper bass for each 8 hrs. on the water. MDC's Borad of Directors knows this and the limit, wheather 6 or 20 is really not a part of the equasion, it is an arbratary figure. The practice of catch and release of Black Bass is without a doubt figured as part of harvest data.

You are seeing everything thru Rose colored glasses, and beliving everything a state agency does is soley dictated by biology. My friend nothing could be further from the truth. Dollars are always the factor. They are always the bottom line. Don't you for one minute believe that if the electro fishing studies come back negitive, as they have in the past, that the limits will be adjusted. Won't happen, has never happened, and will not in the future.

Nature and Corps of Engineers are the hardest taskmasters on our fish, and the general public is just here for the ride.

[stock jockey]

Bill,

Can you answer one thing for me. Why is it okay to eat walleye, striper, catfish, perch, or any other fish besides Bass.

Oh, by the way I am still waiting for the apology.

Stock Jockey

[denjac]

Bill,

Can you answer one thing for me. Why is it okay to eat walleye, striper, catfish, perch, or any other fish besides Bass.

Oh, by the way I am still waiting for the apology.

Stock Jockey

For one reason they taste better! The other reason is because of the intense pressure put on the bass. No other fish gets as much pressure as these guys and if it were"nt for catch and release they would be gone. I dont think an apology from Bill is needed, its just a friendly debate, and if you got your feelings hurt, thats what happens in a debate. I think most of it was you just trying to push some buttons rather than debating your position on eating bass or not. The law says you can eat them so get after it, just dont post it on here as this is a pro catch and release site and you will get your feelings hurt again. Have I ever ate a bass, you bet, in my youth I had to prove I could bring home the bacon. Then my ponds I fished in kansas and Missouri started to be unproductive and catch and release was just coming into play and I saw the light.

[Fly_Guy]

Bill,

Can you answer one thing for me. Why is it okay to eat walleye, striper, catfish, perch, or any other fish besides Bass.

Oh, by the way I am still waiting for the apology.

Stock Jockey

They do taste better - though a bass caught out of a clean lake would taste a sight better than farm pond bass. We used to catch a mess of bluegill and bass out of gma and gpas pond once a year and eat em - they were a little "pondish", but they were still good. And it thinned the population, so we would start to catch 5 lbers as years went on. Then we let those ones go

The bigger reason is B.A.S.S. Ray Scott made the bass untouchable. Bill, and so many like him (including me, deep down) hold the bass above other fish in terms of prestige. There is no real logical answer to your question Stock Jockey - modern fishermen have a bias towards bass because the elite (the Dances, Martins, and VanDams of the world) fish for them. Should it be that way? Probably not, but it is what it is. B.A.S.S. has done a HUGE amount in terms of conservation awareness and promoting c&r. Way back when, C&R was unheard of - if you caught a bass, you ate it. To do otherwise would be a waste. Now, as more and more fishermen take to the water, C&R has been vital in giving fishermen a quality experience.

If your life's work was to restore old muscle cars, you would have something to say if someone took the cars that you had worked tirelessly to restore and used them in a demolition derby. To some, that's the same as Joe Schmo eating the bass that you have worked tirelessly to protect with C&R. It is what it is - no good being all upset. On a side note, I've found that people who demand an apology generally don't deserve one. Not trying to be offensive - just saying. Lifes too short to get too upset over a forum.

Happy fishing!

[Whack'emGood]

If your life's work was to restore old muscle cars, you would have something to say if someone took the cars that you had worked tirelessly to restore and used them in a demolition derby. To some, that's the same as Joe Schmo eating the bass that you have worked tirelessly to protect with C&R.

I think that is a great analogy FlyGuy. Great post.

Good luck on the water.

Whack'em

[FishinCricket]

I think that is a great analogy FlyGuy. Great post.

I second that....

[john19]

Wow I just saw this today I can not believe I just read all 118 post.

I have a few questions

1)Do any of the guides that commented on this thread fish tournaments( the reason I ask this is because you all seem to be a huge advocate of the Bass fishery down here) I do not see how a guide can advocate both

2) Does any body know the mortality rate of Bass tournaments?

3) Do you guys that strictly catch and release think that all your fish live after you release them. If so why.

4) Not to name any store or resort but why would some one have a Bass tourney on Table Rock during the spawn and allow you fish with live bait.

Thats all I have right now

[Bird Watcher]

Jon, I know your done, and I will say I love your pashion. But what Phil is saying, still stands, you have not read the entire thread, and your replys relate that. Before making responses please read carfully, and do not assume that the posters do not know of what they speak.

In State agencies, economics rules however much we would like to believe other wise. It is a fact.

For "Cripes Sakes, Quite appoligizing to everyone." Your thoughts are as important as anyone elses.

Read my post carefully, I don't make these things up. My contacts are at the head of MDC, and I know what I speak. If you think changes are made on Table Rock due to Bass populations reguardless of numbers, YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY WRONG..... Biologist do not make the limits, or set the harvest.

They do studies and make recommendations to a conservation board that is composed of business people. Read my post closly and you will see how limits are set. Stocking the resourse, as has already been stated, will never come into play, it is not an option. MDC does not stock and will not stock fish except for trout and paddle fish for reasons other that procreation, NOT HARVEST.

I love your guarantee of 100% if the fish populations dropped low enough MDC would restrict harvest. Who told you this? Were you not here in 1999 thru 2002. How low are you talking about and who told you this? Jon, we had over a 90% lake wide kill of the largemouth population, and a reduction of SM and Spotted bass, of percentages that were not calcuable, and the limit remained at 6 per person per day. How low are you talking, and who is giving you your information?

Jon, there is history here, along with area knowledge of the working of MDC on the Rock. If you are not part of this community it is hard to see, or for that matter under stand the economics of the region. We all read you as a stanch supporter, beliving limits are set with a harvest goal in mind, but that is not how the fishery opporates here. Never has and never will be, and is really not setup or intended to be.

If recommendations by lake biologist after the fish kill, were to lower the harvest to 3 bass per person per day and the retention limit was restriced to 6 bass total, after the second day, the ecomomic impact was estimated to be in the 100's of millions.

This was not a viable option. With creel harvest reported at less than a keeper bass at that time every 12 hrs. It took the limit out of the equasion, as for the most part people cannot catch them anyway. When the board sees from the creel studies that Joe Smo out of Desmoines is only catching 1 keeper a day, and then sees harvest data and economic impact it is a no brainer to leave the limits were they are.

Here is a shocker for you, that was related by a biologist friend, if the limits were set at 100 bass per day, do you think it would make a difference in the total number of harvestable bass in the lake. NO it would not.... Bass are released by 90 plus percent of bass fisherman. Those persons that retain bass for the most part fall into the current creel study of 1 keeper bass for each 8 hrs. on the water. MDC's Borad of Directors knows this and the limit, wheather 6 or 20 is really not a part of the equasion, it is an arbratary figure. The practice of catch and release of Black Bass is without a doubt figured as part of harvest data.

You are seeing everything thru Rose colored glasses, and beliving everything a state agency does is soley dictated by biology. My friend nothing could be further from the truth. Dollars are always the factor. They are always the bottom line. Don't you for one minute believe that if the electro fishing studies come back negitive, as they have in the past, that the limits will be adjusted. Won't happen, has never happened, and will not in the future.

Nature and Corps of Engineers are the hardest taskmasters on our fish, and the general public is just here for the ride.

I can't agree with either side of this debate 100%, but I do agree 100% with what Bill is saying about the basis of decisions by the MDC.

It has nothing to do with Biology, It's about cash. How it's made and how it's spent.

The MDC is a business. Plain and simple. Don't think they just arbitrarily go around protecting wildlife. I mean, they will, if the price is right.

[rangerman]

John19,

I made a comment about fish mortality during tournaments, only got one comment back for it and it too was negative. I didn't photograph the dead loss aound my dock, but I guess I should have. Its a sad thing.

I have never kept a LM or SM on Table Rock. Caught some really, really good ones. They are just not that good too eat.

Kentuckies are really good eating however, and they are what I target when fishing for bass. I realease ALL SM and LM. Sooooooo, I do my part in sustaining the LM and SM fishery. They get photographed and put back in the drink.

Also if someone gets upset and feels the need to start a fight over someone smiling at them when they catch and keep a legal kentucky, that is their problem. If they want to whine and cry about it when they get off the lake thats fine. Besides a fishermen shouldn't be fishing that close to one another anyway.

Whack em it was just talk, I don't think anyone would actually taunt another on the issue. Don't get you panties in abunch. I don't.

My brother in law is an avid bass fisherman and fishes tournaments. Don't say I agree with him on the matter. But when the times comes around to go fishing for kentuckies dow at Table Rock, he has no problem with keeping them.

I'm really done now.

Bye, Bye and good luck to all, be safe on the water.