Protecting The Bass Population?

[Whack'emGood]

I will assure you that there are more fish that die after you release them and than we will know. I'm sure there are a lot of fish that die to predation, there are fish that die of old age. But I don't see how some one can sit there and say I catch and release there for I kill no fish.

I'm sure there aren't any members on here that are willing to quit fishing altogether in order to never accidentally kill a fish-- it seems like you are saying that is the best option... although it may be, it is obviously not feasible... and obviously not going to happen.

I know one thing though. I practice catch and release 100% of the time on bass, and I kill a heckuva lot less fish than someone who deliberately kills and eats them.

You know... we might get hit by a truck and killed crossing the street also, but I am still going to cross the street if I need to get to the other side. Do you know what I am saying?

What a silly side to the argument we are having now... Now I guess it is not CATCH N RELEASE vs. CATCH N FRY... It is now CATCH N RELEASE (with a minute chance that one may still die) vs. CATCH N FRY (with zero chance any fish will live after he swims in the grease).

I still know which one I will practice... it doesn't change anything.

Whack'em

[Flysmallie]

Here is an article taken from Science Daily. It shows where fish have been caught and released as much as 16 times in a one year period. Catch & Release may lose a few fish here and there, but a fillet knife kills them every time. Just for the record I practice catch & release 99% of the time, but I never have any bad feelings about taking a few home once or twice a year. The guys that really bother me are the ones that think they have to keep every keeper that they catch.

Born To Be Caught: Largemouth Bass Vulnerability To Being Caught By Anglers Is A Heritable Trait

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In an experiment spanning over 20 years, researchers have found that vulnerability to being caught by anglers is a heritable trait in largemouth bass. (Credit: iStockphoto/Lawrence Sawyer)

ScienceDaily (Apr. 15, 2009) — In an experiment spanning over 20 years, researchers at the University of Illinois have found that vulnerability to being caught by anglers is a heritable trait in largemouth bass.

The study began in 1975 with the resident population of bass in Ridge Lake, an experimental study lake in Fox Ridge State Park in Charleston. The fishing was controlled. For example, anglers had to reserve times, and every fish that was caught was put into a live well on the boat. The fish were measured and tagged to keep track of how many times each fish had been caught. All fish were then released.

"We kept track over four years of all of the angling that went on, and we have a total record – there were thousands of captures," said David Philipp, ecology and conservation researcher at U of I. "Many fish were caught more than once. One fish was caught three times in the first two days, and another was caught 16 times in one year."

After four years, the pond was drained, and more than 1,700 fish were collected. "Interestingly, about 200 of those fish had never been caught, even though they had been in the lake the entire four years," Philipp said.

Males and females from the group that had never been caught were designated Low Vulnerability (LV) parents. To produce a line of LV offspring, these parents were allowed to spawn with each other in university research ponds. Similarly, males and females that had been caught four or more times in the study were designated High Vulnerability (HV) parents that were spawned in different ponds to produce a line of HV offspring. The two lines were then marked and raised in common ponds until they were big enough to be fished.

"Controlled fishing experiments clearly showed that the HV offspring were more vulnerable to angling than the LV offspring," said Philipp.

This selection process was repeated for several generations over the course of the 20 year experiment.

"As we had predicted, vulnerability was a heritable trait," he said. Philipp went on to explain that with each generation, the difference between lines in angling vulnerability grew even larger.

"Most of the selection is occurring on the LV fish – that is, for the most part, the process is making that line of fish less vulnerable to angling. We actually saw only a small increase in angling vulnerability in the HV line," Philipp said.

Male bass are the sole caregiver for the offspring. Females lay eggs and leave. The male guards the nest against brood predators for about three to four days before the eggs hatch and another eight to 10 days after they hatch, before they become free-swimming. Even after the baby bass start to swim, the dads stay with them for another three weeks while they feed and grow, protecting them from predators.

Philipp explained that the experiment sped up what's actually happening in nature. "In the wild, the more vulnerable fish are being preferentially harvested, and as a result the bass population is being directionally selected to become less vulnerable. We selected over three generations, but in the wild the selection is occurring in every generation.

"We've known for 50 years that commercial fishing exerts selection on wild populations," he said. "We take the biggest fish, and that has changed life histories and growth patterns in many populations of commercially harvested species. Because there is no commercial fishing for bass, we were assessing the evolutionary impacts of recreational fishing."

Philipp explained that the perception among anglers is that catch-and-release has no negative impact on the population. During the spawning season, however, if bass are angled and held off of their nests for more than a few minutes, when they are returned to the lake, it's too late; other fish have found the nest and are quickly eating the babies.

Philipp recommends that to preserve bass populations across North America, management agencies need to protect the nesting males during the spawning season. "There should be no harvesting bass during the reproductive period. That makes sense for all wildlife populations. You don't remove the adults during reproduction.

"One of the big issues for concern is the explosion of tournaments. Lots of bass tournaments are held during the springtime because there are lots of big fish available. In tournaments you put fish into live wells, and yes, they're released, but they could be held for up to 8 hours first. They're brought back to the dock, miles from their nest. So, basically, if a fish is caught in a tournament and brought into the boat and put into a live well, his nest is destroyed."

Philipp recommended that if fishing tournaments were held during the spawning season, then regulations should require that there be immediate catch-and-release, eliminating the use of tournament weigh-ins.

Philipp urges management agencies to go even further and suggests that a portion of each lake could be set aside as a bass spawning sanctuary, where all fishing would be prohibited until after bass reproduction is complete. In the rest of the lake, mandatory catch-and-release regulations could be put into place during that same reproductive period. In Illinois, the bass reproduction period is from about April 1 through June 15. Philipp said that in that way, anglers could help protect the long-term future of the resource without completely restricting fishing.

"The potential for angling to have long-term evolutionary impacts on bass populations is real. If we truly want to protect this valuable resource into the future, then we need to understand that and adjust our management strategies," Philipp said.

Others on the University of Illinois research team include Steven Cooke, Julie Claussen, Jeffrey Koppelman, Cory Suski, and Dale Burkett.

[john19]

1) Yes

2) Extremely low

3) Absolutely - unless they are gut or gill hooked really bad.

4) Nobody would to my knowledge-- where did that come from?

You said absolutely

All I was trying to say is that fish die. NO MATTER HOW YOU OR WHERE YOU HOOK THEM!

I catch and release I catch and eat I support both but I am not about to set there and say because I catch and release I'm not killing fish.

I for one think that a person that is C&R only will do more damage to a fishery because there has to be a checks and balance in a fishery for the ecosystem to survive . If we do not keep any fish one of the the side will get out of balance then you will see some stuff happen fish kills , because of over population.

I just wonder what all the old timers would think about this topic I am talking about the ones that were guiding be for they dammed the white river up. How did they survive.

One last thing if you catch and release fish here in your own lake do you eat fish at a restaurant, they have to come from some where so whats the difference.

Eat more fish it will be better in the log run.

Hey fly guy I think thats is your user name did you find the Brown Bass recipe

[Whack'emGood]

You said absolutely

All I was trying to say is that fish die. NO MATTER HOW YOU OR WHERE YOU HOOK THEM!

I catch and release I catch and eat I support both but I am not about to set there and say because I catch and release I'm not killing fish.

I for one think that a person that is C&R only will do more damage to a fishery because there has to be a checks and balance in a fishery for the ecosystem to survive . If we do not keep any fish one of the the side will get out of balance then you will see some stuff happen fish kills , because of over population.

I just wonder what all the old timers would think about this topic I am talking about the ones that were guiding be for they dammed the white river up. How did they survive.

One last thing if you catch and release fish here in your own lake do you eat fish at a restaurant, they have to come from some where so whats the difference.

Eat more fish it will be better in the log run.

Hey fly guy I think thats is your user name did you find the Brown Bass recipe

You said that C&R fishermen are actually doing more damage to the fishery than if they kept and, in effect, caught out all of the bass?

I'm glad you aren't the MDC. Table Rock would be a terrible place to fish. Heck I would probably quit fishing and take up golf again.

[john19]

You must not like checks and balance, you must have never seen places that are catch and release only. I have seen them where quite a few years down the road there is an over abundance of one size either it be small or big. And that is my reason to say they do more damage.

Yep I would like to say it would be great but I have yet to see any ichthyologist say thats what you will need to do C&R only.

They will have recommendations on what size of fish to keep, I would also venture out there to say that how slot limits are made and even come about in some areas.

Now if the fish are in danger with low numbers they will say C&R and probably not to even target that spices. and maybe even close the area to fishing all together.

[Whack'emGood]

You must not like checks and balance, you must have never seen places that are catch and release only. I have seen them where quite a few years down the road there is an over abundance of one size either it be small or big. And that is my reason to say they do more damage.

Yep I would like to say it would be great but I have yet to see any ichthyologist say thats what you will need to do C&R only.

They will have recommendations on what size of fish to keep, I would also venture out there to say that how slot limits are made and even come about in some areas.

Now if the fish are in danger with low numbers they will say C&R and probably not to even target that spices. and maybe even close the area to fishing all together.

I think I will butt out of this thread because clearly I am not a fisheries expert like you. I guess the MDC isn't very good at it either. Maybe you should get together a presentation and show them how it is done. Maybe you should try to convince the MDC to try to convince the fishermen that catch 99% of the bass (C&R bass fishermen) to start keeping and eating their catches... then we'll see how long bass remains even a sustainable species in TR. Good luck.

I'm done with this dead horse... haul him to the glue factory.

Have a great day.

[john19]

I believe that the word Conservation means WISE USE.

I would like to get an MDC ichthyologist to comment on this I believe that Bill Anderson is the main one on this lake unless he has retired.

I never claimed to be an expert, I was just supporting my argument in this debate with documentation in which a smart debater will do.

So tuck your tail and run and when your specific area is over populated with one size of fish and you cant figure out why; don't come into ours and try and screw it up.

Oh yea we will wave from our fish fry as you go by.

[mrcold]

you must have never seen places that are catch and release only. I have seen them where quite a few years down the road there is an over abundance of one size either it be small or big.

Granted, I'm not from Missouri, and I'm a newbie on here, but I've NEVER seen a problem where there's an overabundance of big fish.

Perhaps you could direct me to one of these cursed lakes that are overrun by 5 lb. bass?

[duckydoty]

Granted, I'm not from Missouri, and I'm a newbie on here, but I've NEVER seen a problem where there's an overabundance of big fish.

Perhaps you could direct me to one of these cursed lakes that are overrun by 5 lb. bass?

He's afraid you might eat them

[john19]

Granted, I'm not from Missouri, and I'm a newbie on here, but I've NEVER seen a problem where there's an overabundance of big fish.

Perhaps you could direct me to one of these cursed lakes that are overrun by 5 lb. bass?

Yep I love those places too.

But there could a problem if all the big fish started dying at the same time and there were no small fish to replace them.

Most generally speaking fish that weigh the same are the same year class.

And yes I know that there can be some exception to that rule, beacuse some fish will grow at diffrents rates.