Buying A Kayak

[kayaker]

For those mentioning the Native Ulitmate 12, I just bought one and I love it. I have been fishing for 10 years out of my Old Town Loon 138. It has been a great boat for me, but the Ultimate blows it away. It is much more manueverable and lighter and you can stand up in it very easily. The first time you try standing it feels wobbly but you get used to it quickly. The secondary stability is great. You can remove and elevate the seat also which is great. It is a hybrid boat, paddles like a kayak but has the space of a canoe, that is how they designed it, to provide the space and storage of a canoe. I recently did a river trip where I floated down stream two miles fishing and paddled back up stream to the truck with now problems. I am taking it to the Elk River this week.

[GloryDaze]

One of my river fishing buddies has the Native Ultimate 12' and certainly enjoys its perks. You do sit in it pretty low, similar to a SINK- however getting in and out is WAY easier than any SINK. He also purchase a bow and stern spray skirt for his- they come in handy if he wants dry storage in case of rain or when we are in a little bigger water. His also has a drop-down skeg, which he only uses when paddling on a lake (or sections of the Buffalo).

Cons- This thing is heavy and a beast to load. When we take my car H3, it is near impossible for a single person to load it. It can be pretty sluggish when paddling (however, he knew that and doesn't care about speed).

I personally use a SINK and have found it to serve the purpose of what I need- Tsunami 125. I also am not a "fish only" kind of guy- so I like the versatility mine provides.. speed when I want to cover a lot of ground, stability by having thigh braces (I have also had it in class III water on the Mulberry) and storage- 2 dry hatchs.

I think it's a personal choice for sure (trial and error) I started wita SOT and sold it after 3 months- and what works for me, most likely wil not work for you-

I have attached a few pics- Most of you have sen this but for some it may be new

Rob's Native

My Tsunami 125

[et84]

The Vapor 12 is advertised at Bass Pro at $499. It weighs 54 pounds. The $679 (BP price) angler version comes with an anchor and trolley system and rod holders.

My family and I yak/ canoe fish a lot. One of my brother's friends just bought the 12' Vapor angler edition from Pro Bass a couple of months ago. For the difference in price, don't think its worth the extra $$$ for the angler edition. That being said, it is a NICE yak. It was purchased specifically for fishing, and that's exactly what it's been used for. I like the bigger cockpit mostly (I think it's the same on the regular Vapor). The owner isn't a big guy, but he's tall- maybe 6'2" or 6'3" and he gets in and out of it with ease. My brother along with several of my friends own Rushs. They are nice, and cheap, although I believe they just got discontinued this year. One HUGE difference is the cockpit size. My suggestion- get a Vapor, and install an anchor and rod holders yourself (real ones, not just holes in the yak), then put the extra $100 into a new rod/reel!! Hope you get your hands on something you're satisfied with, regardless of what you decide. Good luck!!!

[Al Agnew]

The Native IS definitely a hybrid canoe/kayak. I'd rate it better than a kayak for fishing Ozark streams, but not as good as a good solo canoe. Its only real advantage over a solo canoe is that you CAN actually stand up in it to fish. If that's important to you (and for the average flyfisherman it probably is) that one advantage might just outweigh all the disadvantages. The biggest disadvantage is, as Glory said, weight. All the molded-in stuff brings up the weight--unnecessarily in my opinion. My thoughts on molded-in and permanently attached gimmicks such as you find on "angler versions" and Natives is that what works for one person while fishing doesn't necessarily work for another, and I'd rather get a bare bones hull and customize it to MY specifications, instead of depending upon some marketer's idea of a fishing craft.

Glory's other con, the sluggishness of paddling the Native, means a bit more than just being slow. As an angler, I want to maximize my fishing, not my paddling. You will inevitably come to unproductive water, especially long, dead pools, when floating Ozark streams, and I want to get through such water as quickly as possible without working real hard at it. And, the same characteristics that make a boat harder to move through the water (slower) also make the current push it more when you want to stop or slow it.

I owned an Old Town Pack for many years, and never found it to be very tippy. However, I did move the seat forward as soon as I paddled it the first time. I don't know why, but Old Town has always mounted the seat too far back in the Pack. It should be placed so that the front edge of the seat is just about in the center of the canoe. Where it is when it comes from the factory contributes to the tippiness, especially if it's loaded fairly lightly, because it's placed far enough back to be where the hull is a little narrower. Move it forward to the widest, flattest part of the bottom, and you eliminate some of the instability, as well as making it track better. The Pack will never be a good tracking canoe, because it's too short and wide, but when you're sitting in the middle of it at least each straight paddle stroke makes it turn somewhat less, and a J stroke will actually work to keep it straight instead of making it zig on the front part of the stroke and zag on the ending J.

By the way, Esox, you can easily add sponsons or outriggers to a solo canoe, and then you can stand in it even easier than you can in a kayak, because you have more foot room and a flatter bottom to stand on. And any good Royalex solo canoe will weigh considerably LESS than a kayak of similar length. Of course, you do pay for the light weight, since Royalex is a more expensive material than any of the kayak plastics.

Ham will tell you the biggest advantage to kayaks, and that is that they are less affected by wind than canoes. For lake paddling and fishing, that just might be a very important advantage. Couple it with the usually cheaper price, and it just might outweigh the definite advantages to canoes for your purposes.

[JONBOY]

Heres my 2 cents... My wife has Ocean Kayak sit on top to work on her tan. It is 30" wide and very hard to tip. The down fall is you are sitting in water the entire time, and it is only 8'6" long. I have a Old Town Loon 100 Angler edition, sit in. The anchor sits on the side, I wish it was a little wider, and it is 10' long. My dog doesn't fit in it with me, and there is little room for "stuff". I wish it had a dry box and was a little longer, but the plus side is that it is really easy to fly fish out of. One thing to look at is to make sure that your feet fit in there, I wear size 12 shoe and it took me a while to find a kayak with a cockpit big enough for my feet. Thanks.

[ollie]

Put me in the catagory of the Wilderness boats too. Hey Wayne, wanna get rid of that Pam 100? Had mine over 5 years now with a patch on it and it is still going strong!

[retroaction man]

i would advise to go fore a sit in kayak and go to a longer rod. bu that would just be my opinion. I pretty much hate everything about a SOT kayaks when it comes to fishing rivers ans streams. Now if we are talking fishing on a gulf or along inter coastal waterways i would totally say use a SOT.

Also the "hybrid" kayak/canoes have really been catching my eye. I know Mohawk and Mad River have roto molded hybrids and this right here might be the next boat i buy

http://www.madrivercanoe.com/product/index...s/adventure_16/

[Wayne SW/MO]

I think it should be noted that when you enter a kayak or a solo canoe with a 29"-30" beam, they are "tippy". This doesn't mean they tip over easy, but its a product of the design that allows them to corner. Unlike a motorcycle, they won't fall over. You get use to it and find that there is a point where they resist rolling over any further. After you become accustomed to this initial roll, initial stability, you don't notice it, and the secondary stability becomes the focal point. On a well designed craft the secondary stability is much firmer with a wider footprint. They are like shoes, you have to get used to them and then it will go virtually unnoticed.

[RSBreth]

Also the "hybrid" kayak/canoes have really been catching my eye. I know Mohawk and Mad River have roto molded hybrids and this right here might be the next boat i buy

http://www.madrivercanoe.com/product/index...s/adventure_16/

Man, that thing is a beast- 80-something pounds? I guess it would be stable...

[Ham]

Ham will tell you the biggest advantage to kayaks, and that is that they are less affected by wind than canoes. For lake paddling and fishing, that just might be a very important advantage. Couple it with the usually cheaper price, and it just might outweigh the definite advantages to canoes for your purposes.

Ham will tell you ONE of the biggest advantages is that it is better in the wind. Funny thing about wind following the course of a river ; Wind NOT just for lakes anymore.

Ham will also say that he can store his rods inside his yak and they are safe even if his yak gets rolled by a class III.

And scupper holes mean that you never swamp your boat and have to stop and get the water out of it. I like a wave train breaking over the bow. Fun stuff.

Solo canoes are the way to go to if camping solo. I can do that out of my Tarpon, but I'd rather use a canoe for that.

Canoes are likely manuverable in the hands of a skilled paddler, but kayaks are a heck of a lot easier to learn and sure seem to be easier to start and stop.

All boats are a compromise and no one boat does everything. Take a look at the Tarpon 120 before you buy if you can.