Anitdepressants And Your Fish

[Wayne SW/MO]

I know nothing about organic chemistry, but if everything is reduced to the fundamental elements, how do they identify Viagra and many other drugs in our water?

[eric1978]

I know nothing about organic chemistry, but if everything is reduced to the fundamental elements, how do they identify Viagra and many other drugs in our water?

The study mentioned people dumping pills directly into toilets, which I guess would explain that. But I haven't noticed any more "stiffness" than normal lately.

[Al Agnew]

Actually there are a lot of our pharmaceuticals that have been found in our waters. It's getting to be a big problem in the east, with its greater population densities and high class smallmouth and trout rivers. Lots of intersex fish are being found, for instance. Now, we can argue all we want about how much of a given pharmaceutical is being broken down by the body, how much is being passed, how much gets flushed down the toilet, etc., but however it's getting there, we know it's getting there and it's causing problems, and since this stuff doesn't just happen in nature, we know pretty much where it's coming from. There are lots of chemicals that are long-lived in the food chain, but the pharmaceuticals are really starting to show up as problem.

I agree with Eric about the other ways we get various pharmas. It's gotten to where I have to close my mind and shut my eyes to buy any kind of meat or poultry at the grocery store. Which is why I'm on a mission to put some deer meat in the freezer this fall. I passed up a doe yesterday because she was so decrepit that I didn't figure she'd be any good to eat. She actually creaked when she walked.

[Gavin]

Residual Pharmacueticals are becoming a big problem. Water treament plants dont have the ability to remove that stuff.

On a side note....One of my wife's girlfriends is a vet, and she has been doing some research on Hellbenders. They think that residual hormones from birth control pills might be interfearing with the hellbenders ability to reproduce. Cheers.

[eric1978]

Actually there are a lot of our pharmaceuticals that have been found in our waters. It's getting to be a big problem in the east, with its greater population densities and high class smallmouth and trout rivers. Lots of intersex fish are being found, for instance. Now, we can argue all we want about how much of a given pharmaceutical is being broken down by the body, how much is being passed, how much gets flushed down the toilet, etc., but however it's getting there, we know it's getting there and it's causing problems, and since this stuff doesn't just happen in nature, we know pretty much where it's coming from. There are lots of chemicals that are long-lived in the food chain, but the pharmaceuticals are really starting to show up as problem.

I agree with Eric about the other ways we get various pharmas. It's gotten to where I have to close my mind and shut my eyes to buy any kind of meat or poultry at the grocery store. Which is why I'm on a mission to put some deer meat in the freezer this fall. I passed up a doe yesterday because she was so decrepit that I didn't figure she'd be any good to eat. She actually creaked when she walked.

There are a lot more factories in the east and I wonder how much of what's found in the water is coming straight out of them. I know they're under a lot of disposal regulations, but we all see those documentaries and news reports on the illicit practices that go on all the time until a company is caught. Manufacturing byproducts are surely making their way out of those buildings into places they're not supposed to go and leaching into the aquifers. We all know where that water goes next.

I guess I'm just skeptical about how much contamination is actually passed through humans and into the toilets. I'm not saying I'd want to take a bath in a vat of human waste, but if it wasn't for the diseases in it, I'd venture to say it would be more organic and less toxic than the stuff factories are producing.

I suppose this could be a major problem, however, if it's true that water treatment plants are incapable of filtering out pharmaceuticals through some process. You can bury solid trash in a landfill, but it's really tough to sequester contaminated liquids, which I guess we humans have been struggling with since the industrial revolution.

We are our own worst enemy.

[brownieman]

We been our own worst enemy for years now and we're in a self destruct mode.

If nothing else it gives all the educated idiots something to focus on with no solution on the horizon. If there is a cure or a fix found the 'Big Money' buries it real fast.

That's why I never minded keeping a few fish to eat from what I feel is a halfway clean stream (the Current) during the winter months...with the exception of the trout farm on the headwaters and the sewage lagoon outlet that dumps straight in the river below the park.

I say again we are destroying at an alarming rate the very world that supports our existence...this is the result of a species with a thought process IMO. Environmentaly stupid as opposed to most other critters.

later on

[fishinwrench]

Are there just too many of us (humans) ? Have we overpopulated the land and thrown off the natural balance of things. ? This could lead to a discussion on the Georgia guidestones, the illuminati, and Religious faith. And since we can't go there I guess I have nothing of real value to add.

I see what goes on here around L.O. concerning water quality and I'm sure it's no better anywhere else, and my opinion is that there are too many blind and mindless, but yet "intellegent" people that seem to be incapable of independant thinking (or gathering of facts) who insure that nothing will ever change. Totally bums me out. Plus I worry about the future for my kids sake...and their kids.

Sometime, Somehow...Something has to give. This I do know.

[Kayser]

Just as a quick point- there are two major classes of chemical compounds- hydrophobic and hydrophilic. Skipping the technical BS, they are either water soluble or fat soluble. Yes, the body does metabolize a certain portion of the drugs, but the rest are kept in what they are soluble in. Water soluble stuff, you piss out, like vitamin C. But the fat soluble stuff sticks around a while, and yes, many pharmaceuticals are fat soluble, which is why it takes so darn long to test as "free" of the drug after the person actually quits taking it. Most anti-depressants are fat soluble, so it's not so hard to believe that they could accumulate in fish.

Rob

[Chief Grey Bear]

I guess I'm just skeptical about how much contamination is actually passed through humans and into the toilets. I'm not saying I'd want to take a bath in a vat of human waste, but if it wasn't for the diseases in it, I'd venture to say it would be more organic and less toxic than the stuff factories are producing.

We are our own worst enemy.

I haven't read this paticular article but, I believe they may be talking about flushing the pills themselves. I have been hearing about this for the last few years.

I just heard on the news this morning that just over the line here in KS some place, there has been a place set up for people to bring their unneeded meds for proper disposal. It said to date, and I didn't catch how long it has been open but I don't think for all that long, they have recieved 60 lbs so far.

Now if this one town did this, can you imagine how much we could get out of the streams if all towns offered this? I think this is a geat idea and it needs to spead like wildfire!

[Wayne SW/MO]

While there is no doubt that unused meds should be disposed of properly, and flushing them will put them in the water supply. I do have a problem understanding how they could build up enough to be detectable in a lake the size of TR or a river with the flow of the James. The theory that they are being flushed seems far fetched, unless its coming from the DNR, then we know its a coverup. That's a lot of expensive drugs being thrown out, and most, unlike antibiotics, would be usable in the future. Even the thought that someone overbought Viagra in a weak moment probably wouldn't produce enough to share through the water system.