Mdc's Smallmouth Management Area Selection

[Chief Grey Bear]

Drew, I'm with you on the "endangered and threatened" thing. Smallmouths (other than pure strain Neosho smallmouth) are far from threatened or endangered over the Ozarks as a whole. They could probably be considered "threatened" as a species on the lower 30 miles of so of Big River and the Bourbeuse, but even that is a questionable proposition since chances are they'd never totally disappear there because they would be continually being replenished by upstream and tributary sources. They won't disappear from Big River as a whole, and probably not from the Bourbeuse. (And, off the topic a bit, not much trips my trigger more than somebody saying a particular interest group of humans is "an endangered species", like loggers in the Northwest, for instance. To say something like that about any subset of Homo sapiens, the most UN-endangered species on earth, is really trivializing the whole concept of endangered species...but enough of that rant.)

What we're talking about with smallmouth regulations is ENHANCING, and perhaps protecting where it has the potential of declining, a FISHERY.

In the previous year that we have been talking about this, we were lead to believe that the smallmouth was on the brink of extinction in eastern Missouri. Now I am beginning to understand.

In these last few threads a lot of different thoughts and ideas have been thrown out in regards to how the regulations should be changed. Would you tell me what it is that you would like to see. What would your Christmas list of regs for smallmouth be? Would they be statewide or more on per waterway basis?

[ness]

I believe that regulations have both direct and indirect effects. Directly, they manage harvest of fish so that management goals are reached. Indirectly, they "educate" the fishing public on the value of a fishery and the threats to it. The direct effect only works if the vast majority of anglers follow the regs. The indirect effect works to convince some of those anglers that the fishery needs the protection. The direct effect works best only if there is enforcement of the regs, but the indirect works even without adequate enforcement.

Good stuff right there. I hadn't really thought about it in that way, but you're right -- designation of an area and/or regs do highlight the importance of an area. Now if we could just get a CA to drive by occasionally so people know they take it seriously.

I wonder if MDC ever thought of using uniformed mannequins? Or maybe just park a CA truck at a popular access.

Kinda started that out as a joke, but the more I think about it, the more I like it. The truck part, that is.

[eric1978]

In the previous year that we have been talking about this, we were lead to believe that the smallmouth was on the brink of extinction in eastern Missouri. Now I am beginning to understand.

In these last few threads a lot of different thoughts and ideas have been thrown out in regards to how the regulations should be changed. Would you tell me what it is that you would like to see. What would your Christmas list of regs for smallmouth be? Would they be statewide or more on per waterway basis?

I don't know most of the streams farther south or west of the Current, so I won't make any assumptions on what I think would be best on those rivers.

If Santa was willing to give me whatever I wanted for SMAs, I would have him extend the Jack's Fork SMA to cover the entire Current, but instead of 1 fish 18 inches, I would make it 1 fish 20 inches.

I would want all streams in the Meramec River system, which include Big River, the Bourbeuse River, Huzzah and Courtois Creeks, and other smaller creeks, to be C&R only for smallmouth and unlimited harvest for spotted bass. I would prefer the spotted bass be under a mandatory kill, but I don't think that would be realistic in terms of enforcement.

Instead of the mandatory kill regulation, I would at least like to legally be able to humanely kill spotted bass and leave them where they are, so the spots that are so infested with yellow grubs that I couldn't fathom eating could still be removed from the river without dragging them around with me all day just to pitch them when I got home.

And honestly, I'd like to see jetboats outlawed above certain points on these rivers as well, though I know I'll catch some flack from you guys about that. They're dangerous in skinny water and they facilitate giggers to kill or injure game fish, whether it be purposefully or not.

[Al Agnew]

In the previous year that we have been talking about this, we were lead to believe that the smallmouth was on the brink of extinction in eastern Missouri. Now I am beginning to understand.

In these last few threads a lot of different thoughts and ideas have been thrown out in regards to how the regulations should be changed. Would you tell me what it is that you would like to see. What would your Christmas list of regs for smallmouth be? Would they be statewide or more on per waterway basis?

Okay, here's my wish list of regs, based upon what I think I know about the whole situation...

1. Change the statewide limits to 3 fish, 14 inch minimum. This will serve to better protect the smallie populations on all the small, wading-size, fragile streams where it doesn't take a whole lot of harvest to really affect the population.

2. Then, make a lot of "exceptions" to the statewide regs. On streams that have been shown to have a possible problem with too many fish for the food base (slower growth rates, poor size structure) go with a slot limit of 12-18 inches, with 5 fish under the slot, one over. There ARE such streams, and if they have that problem, some fish do need to be harvested. But rather than trying to add all the small wading streams to the exceptions, an impossible task, you add the relatively few somewhat larger streams to the exceptions. Then, monitor these streams pretty closely to see if the new "old" regs are working as designed to improve size structure and growth rates. The slot may be have to be tinkered with.

3. On the streams that have better potential for growing big fish, especially the larger streams, go with a 14-20 inch slot with 3 fish under the slot, one over.

4. On the lower Gasconade, Meramec below Meramec Caverns, all of Big River and all of the Bourbeuse, complete protection of smallmouth, and no limits on spotted bass. On the rest of the streams within the Meramec and Gasconade river systems, no limits on spotted bass.

The biggest problems I see with such a regulatory scheme is in identifying the streams that need more "liberal" limits, and educating anglers on the relative complexity of the regs.

In other words, though, I'm advocating scrapping the current limits on SMAs entirely. Although they work to an extent, I think the slot limit idea would work better. And other than the special exceptions to deal with spotted bass in those two river systems, I'd go ahead and make the rules apply to ALL black bass, not just smallmouth, which would solve some of the perceived identity problems. Also, given the slower growth potential of Neosho strain smallies in SW MO streams, I'd consider making the slot limit on most of them 12-16 inches.

So basically you'd have three classes of regulations, based upon characteristics of the streams, and forget about making just a few stretches special management areas while ignoring other stretches. I think this would really be more science-based, no political crap about whether or not you have regulatory support, whether or not there are already too many "special" stream stretches in one region, etc. If we're really going to manage the streams for optimum fishing opportunities, then we should make decisions on them based solely on their fisheries and fishery potential.

Consider the Current River system. Here's how it would work. All the small, wading size tributaries are under regulation one. The Jacks Fork, which has about as many and perhaps more smallies than it needs to have, and the Current between Round Spring and Two Rivers, are under regulation two. The Current downstream, which has more fishing pressure (big, easily jetboatable) and has potential for growing big fish, gets regulation three.

That's my idea, anyway.

[Gavin]

I like the way you think Al....maybe set up some color codes so they can put out a map like many states do for trout.

Blue Ribbon-14-20 inch slot with 3 fish under the slot, one over

Red Ribbon- slot limit of 12-18 inches, with 5 fish under the slot, one over

White or Green Ribbon-3 fish, 14 inch minimum

Spotted Bass Impared Waters(Yellow Ribbon)-Catch & Release for Smallmouth, no limit on spotted bass.

[fishgypsy]

My wish list, if money and politics were no object? Simply what do I think would be the best way to manage the fisheries?

1.) All streams south of the Missouri River would have restrictive smallmouth regulations- limit one fish over 18". A 12-15" slot for other black bass species, daily limit four. EXCEPT: no length or bag limit for spotted bass from north-flowing Ozark streams.

2.) A study of the impacts of gigging on game and non-game fish populations. It honestly would make a good Master's project, I may write it up But examine the impact of gigging on redhorse, suckers, buffalo, and sportfish populations. Do some surveys to determine the best way to juggle gigging with other fishing methods.

3.) Gigging license. Five bucks, and the proceeds go to the sportfish restoration fund. When you get your license you also receive a pamphlet detailing seasons and limits, as well as fish ID, info about not gigging hellbenders, stream health, etc.

As for other, not-directly-related-to-fish-management issues (again, if money and politics were no object):

1.) Ban in-stream gravel mining from Ozark streams, or at least the smaller ones. Perhaps allow limited in-stream gravel mining on streams higher than fifth order (about the size of James River where it enters Table Rock).

2.) Altogether ban livestock from having access to stream. I see nothing logical about bannint ATVs from streambeds, but allowing cows to spend April through October pooping in the water.

3.) Moratorium on building CAFOs throughout the Ozarks until the technology has developed to the point where their existence does not compromise the health of Ozark streams. Each one of those things is equivalent to a city of a few thousand people, and their waste treatment and disposal sytems make me awfully nervous.

4.) Mo' better streamside covenants- perhaps some sort of NGO which works with landowners to help provide public access to streams. Simple stuff- installing fences to keep livestock out of streams, installing livestock water-ers, replanting streambanks and adding revetments, and in return the landowner agrees to allow access to the streams on their property. Not necessarily overland access, but won't harrass anglers who are legally fishing those streams.

[Dan Kreher]

I like the way you think Al....maybe set up some color codes so they can put out a map like many states do for trout.

Blue Ribbon-14-20 inch slot with 3 fish under the slot, one over

Red Ribbon- slot limit of 12-18 inches, with 5 fish under the slot, one over

White or Green Ribbon-3 fish, 14 inch minimum

Spotted Bass Impared Waters(Yellow Ribbon)-Catch & Release for Smallmouth, no limit on spotted bass.

I really like Al and Gavin's wish list for Ozark SMB mananagement. It would effectively raise the bar for all fisheries with a higher statewide MLL and reduced creel limit while offering a meaningful diversity of SMB management on selected streams/sections as warranted. The sizeable protected slot limits protect the majority of adult SMB while providing a more reasonable amount of harvest based on both biological (remove smaller fish for the betterment of growth rates) and dare I say social (appeasement of catch and keep lobby) factors. The enhanced protection of SMB on streams heavily infiltrated by non-native spotted bass (Meramec Basin and Gasconade) is key as well to preserving/improving these once solid SMB fisheries.

The color designations suggested by Gavin would be relatively easy to understand and mirror what the MDC has already introduced for stream trout.

I believe that a system of regs as you both suggest would be a remarkably enlighteend and bold step for the MDC that would once again return it to the forefront of stream SMB fisheries management agencies. Convincing the agency of the need and widespread support for such sweeping regulations will of course take substantial effort on the part of the MSA Blue Ribbon Advisory Panel and concerned SMB anglers on a grassroots basis. The discussion I've witnessed on this forum, while featuring the views of a relatively small number of participants, reveals a serious passion and commitment towards improving and protecting our native SMB stream fisheries for current and future generations.

As the organizer of MSA's Blue Ribbon group, I am very encouraged to hear solid discourse (and occassionally discord) from the knowledgeable posters on this forum. MSA will be carrying these messages to the MDC Fisheries Department when we meet with them in early 2010. This is good stuff.

Happy Holidays to all.

[fishgypsy]

I thought of another while fishing today. Again, if money and politics were no issue, I'd really like to see some sort of assessment of septic and wastewater treatment systems. In some parts of the Ozarks there's a lot of development in the past 20 or 30 years, and often the sewage treatment and septic systems haven't kept up with the population increase.

Last year I was fishing on the middle Gasconade with a friend, when we noticed an area with a ton of filamentous algae blooming all along the stream bottom. We scanned the bank trying to figure out what the deal was, and on a small bluff, overlooking the river, was an old abandoned outhouse. A visual representation, in green and brown, of karst topography in action

But seriously, I think wastewater management is getting to be a bigger problem in some Ozark streams than many people realize, especially when you look at some of the places that are growing most rapidly- Springfield/Branson, Joplin, and others.

[eric1978]

In other words, though, I'm advocating scrapping the current limits on SMAs entirely. Although they work to an extent, I think the slot limit idea would work better. And other than the special exceptions to deal with spotted bass in those two river systems, I'd go ahead and make the rules apply to ALL black bass, not just smallmouth, which would solve some of the perceived identity problems. Also, given the slower growth potential of Neosho strain smallies in SW MO streams, I'd consider making the slot limit on most of them 12-16 inches.

So basically you'd have three classes of regulations, based upon characteristics of the streams, and forget about making just a few stretches special management areas while ignoring other stretches. I think this would really be more science-based, no political crap about whether or not you have regulatory support, whether or not there are already too many "special" stream stretches in one region, etc. If we're really going to manage the streams for optimum fishing opportunities, then we should make decisions on them based solely on their fisheries and fishery potential.

I like the way you think Al....maybe set up some color codes so they can put out a map like many states do for trout.

Blue Ribbon-14-20 inch slot with 3 fish under the slot, one over

Red Ribbon- slot limit of 12-18 inches, with 5 fish under the slot, one over

White or Green Ribbon-3 fish, 14 inch minimum

Spotted Bass Impared Waters(Yellow Ribbon)-Catch & Release for Smallmouth, no limit on spotted bass.

Beautiful. Sounds good to me. Al's concept simplified by Gavin's color coding sounds like a simple and logical way to provide state-wide protection for smallies.

So what now? How do we get that done?

[fishgypsy]

Beautiful. Sounds good to me. Al's concept simplified by Gavin's color coding sounds like a simple and logical way to provide state-wide protection for smallies.

So what now? How do we get that done?

I think it'd have to involve a 20 year study with 35 stream segments

Seriously, though. Let me think up some ideas, and I'll send you a PM