The Al And Gavin Smallmouth Management System

[Gavin]

Eric...Dude...ya gettin some smallmouth regs for Xmas...Red, Green, Blue...cmon...I'ts like anyone was paying attention...Any tips on assembling a tricycle & a doll house? That matters more than smallmouth regs right know ;>)!

[eric1978]

I agree with you on all but one point.. I really think the Current River especially is in need of at least two separate regulation zones. I think the Akers to Two Rivers stretch should be managed under White Ribbon regs... That's fairly small water, and I think it has more potential as a "numbers" fishery than a trophy fishery.

That's a good point, but if you made the upper stretch a Red Ribbon, it would most likely improve the size of the fish, and most people prefer to catch a few bigger fish than a bunch of dinks.

I do agree though, that Blue Ribbon regs should be saved for the streams that have the greatest potential for trophy fish, like the middle stretches of the Current and Niangua, for example...bigger streams that don't have the spot problems.

I really think that most streams would do well under the Red Ribbon regulations.

[eric1978]

Eric...Dude...ya gettin some smallmouth regs for Xmas...Red, Green, Blue...cmon...I'ts like anyone was paying attention...Any tips on assembling a tricycle & a doll houses? That matters more than smallmouth regs right know ;>)!

I would gladly trade the new waders and various other fishing toys I'll be getting for Xmas for new smallie regs.

I'll be waiting until next year to worry about tricycles and dollhouses (hopefully not the dollhouses). Let me enjoy my last Xmas as a fisherman, would ya? Because it's soon goin' bye.

[Dan Kreher]

I understand where you're coming from gypsy, but in the case of the stream smallmouth I don't think the resource is large enough, nor will it ever be. I just wouldn't want economics to be a consideration because I don't think its there.

Certainly improvement of the quality of Ozark stream SMB fisheries would have some positive econonic impact in terms of tourism dollars. Doubtful that its impact would be anything like what the Branson area receives from anglers drawn by the outstanding trout tailwater fisheries/Taneycomo since stream SMB anglers are likely much lower in number.

I have to admit though that I and many others I fish with have been making one to two trips annually to other states to fish their SMB rivers because the fish are much larger than what we have here in the Ozarks. Part of the better (and we're talking average fish sizes of 15-16" with legitimate chances to catch 5lb river fish) are due to quality regulations, a portion is due to the fact that fishermen in Northern states don't traditionally pursue SMB as a food fish (gawd they love those stocked walleyes though) and some may be due to the geographic remoteness of these fisheries. And, yes, in the upper Midwest we're dealing with northern strain SMB which are typically much stockier than our fish here at home but our growing season is much longer. But the point is that we stream SMB anglers do spend money on fishing guides, gas, meals, motels, beer, etc in these other destinations that really starts to add up over time -- just talk to my wife. So, we may be a relatively small lot but the better SMB fishing offered in other states does drive some amount of tourist dollars.

You're probably right though that it's probably not worth the trouble to try and reduce some potential economic impact of better regs to paper. It could certainly be done, but we can fight this battle on other fronts.

[eric1978]

I have to admit though that I and many others I fish with have been making one to two trips annually to other states to fish their SMB rivers because the fish are much larger than what we have here in the Ozarks. Part of the better (and we're talking average fish sizes of 15-16" with legitimate chances to catch 5lb river fish) are due to quality regulations, a portion is due to the fact that fishermen in Northern states don't traditionally pursue SMB as a food fish (gawd they love those stocked walleyes though) and some may be due to the geographic remoteness of these fisheries.

Just out of curiosity, do you remember the regs on any of those rivers? Which rivers in which states did you fish?

[Bman]

I'll be waiting until next year to worry about tricycles and dollhouses (hopefully not the dollhouses). Let me enjoy my last Xmas as a fisherman, would ya? Because it's soon goin' bye.

Eric, I take it you are expecting, or plan to be.

Last Christmas as a fisherman? Quite the contrary, your journey through the world of fishing is just starting. Think of the joys that wait you when you see your son or daughter catch their first fish? Eventually doing the same with your grandkids. What a gift to treasure. You will find seeing them catch a fish will be more exciting for you than catching one yourself.

Congrats, the best is yet to come.

Merry Christmas

[Dan Kreher]

Just out of curiosity, do you remember the regs on any of those rivers? Which rivers in which states did you fish?

Personnally I have taken several trips to the Wisconsin River in north central WI and on the Memomonee River along the WI/MI border over the past several years. Wisconsin has a 14"/4 SMB creel limit in the northern half of the state. Most stream fishermen in that state seem to focus on their fine trout fisheries and warmwater fishermen focus on their abundant natural lakes and flowages. The top smallie sections of both of these rivers do feature some mild whitewater that keeps motorized anglers away leaving them for folks that are looking for a little more adventure. We have hired guides on both rivers over the years for both spin and flyfishing, but now we know enough about good stretches and techniques where that's not really necessary. There are a number of other rivers throughout WI that offer excellent smallie fishing as well. Yes, they have pretty good habitat and forage bases in these rivers, but, frankly, I think the rivers keep on producing excellent quality/trophy fishing since they don't get the pressure from consumptive anglers like our Ozark streams seem to.

Other friends in MSA have fished the upper Mississippi with great success in sections that are either C&R or feature a protected 12-20 inch slot limit (really works as a 20-inch minimum). These areas are just north of the Twin Cities and the insightful regs largely enacted due to efforts of the Minnesota Samllmouth Alliance in the early 1990s are rated as some of the finest SMB fisheries in the country. The regs have definitely made the different on the upper Miss.

[eric1978]

Eric, I take it you are expecting, or plan to be.

Last Christmas as a fisherman? Quite the contrary, your journey through the world of fishing is just starting. Think of the joys that wait you when you see your son or daughter catch their first fish? Eventually doing the same with your grandkids. What a gift to treasure. You will find seeing them catch a fish will be more exciting for you than catching one yourself.

Congrats, the best is yet to come.

Merry Christmas

Thanks for the words of encouragement Bman. I do look forward to my new little fishing buddy...it's the years between now and then I'm worried about. Have a good holiday.

Other friends in MSA have fished the upper Mississippi with great success in sections that are either C&R or feature a protected 12-20 inch slot limit (really works as a 20-inch minimum). These areas are just north of the Twin Cities and the insightful regs largely enacted due to efforts of the Minnesota Samllmouth Alliance in the early 1990s are rated as some of the finest SMB fisheries in the country. The regs have definitely made the different on the upper Miss.

It would be interesting to know what the general response was to the regulations implemented in MN. Maybe when I get bored enough I'll try to look that up. C&R and a 12-20 slot are very aggressive regulations. If they can do that up there, why not here? All regulations we currently have now in MO were proposed and passed at one point in time. Some people liked them, some people hated them and complained, but eventually it just became the way it is and (most) everyone adjusted.

I still don't see how the group of people who feed their families out of necessity with purely smallmouth bass make up that great a portion of the population. Their voice can't be any louder than ours, especially given that they are not organized in any way.

[Gary Lange]

Eric, Is this the Regulations and Study you were talking about.

http://www4.ncsu.edu/~tkwak/Waters_et_al_1993.pdf

[Al Agnew]

A few thoughts...

The ribbon idea has merit because some anglers have been exposed to it through the trout program, but when we're talking about the number of streams that have smallmouth throughout the Ozarks, it's unworkable to put them all on a ribbon system. When you look at all the little creeks in Tryon's book, it would be a little ridiculous to even try to come up with a list of white ribbon streams. And the whole idea behind the trout ribbon designations is a bit different from what we're envisioning for the smallie streams. Like it or not, the trout ribbon system designates streams by VALUE. Blue ribbon=the best streams with the most restrictive regs, red ribbon=less valuable streams deserving of less protection, etc. That's both the perception among anglers and the practical effect of the regs. With the smallmouth streams, yes, you do have more restrictive regs under number 3 than number 2, but that doesn't mean that number 2 streams are less valuable and worse fisheries, and I'm afraid that a ribbon system would foster that outlook. So maybe the ribbon system needs some tinkering with somehow.

Eric's idea of designating whole rivers as one ribbon or another somewhat negates the whole concept. While it would certainly keep things simple and would work for many streams, the larger rivers have different characteristics in different sections, and need to be managed differently. For instance, the Gasconade is 250 miles of floatable water with wadeable water above that! The upper end of the Gasconade from Hartville to Competition has vastly different management needs from the lower Gasconade around Rollins Ferry, or even the middle river around Hazelgreen. And even without the complicating factor of spotted bass, the Meramec above Maramec Spring is a totally different stream from the river below the spring, which is rather different from the river below the mouth of the Huzzah, which is different from the river below Meramec State Park, which is different from the river below the mouth of the Bourbeuse...you get my drift. The Niangua is different above Bennett Spring from what it is below. And then you have Black River, which is so totally different above Clearwater Lake compared to what it is below the lake. Those are just some of the streams that simply wouldn't work well under a "whole stream" designation.

I obviously don't know all there is to know about every stream in the Ozarks. But in general, here's how I'd designate the major rivers based upon my sometimes limited knowledge of their fisheries...

Number four stream sections I already said...Meramec below Meramec State Park or Meramec Caverns (Sand Ford MDC access), all of Big River, all of Bourbeuse River, Gasconade River below Jerome or Bell Chute MDC access.

Number three stream sections:

Niangua River below Prosperine

Gasconade River from Hazelgreen to the beginning of the number four stretch

Big Piney River from Slabtown to the Gasconade

Meramec River from Scott Ford to the beginning of the number four stretch

Current River from Two Rivers or Powdermill downstream

James River below Hootentown access

Those are the bigger streams that have the most growth potential. There may be smaller streams or sections of other streams that would benefit from this designation, at least on an experimental basis.

Number two stream sections--perhaps not the whole length of these sections, but at least some part of them, based upon the numbers of smallmouth and growth rates--I'm only naming streams in my side of the Ozarks that I know firsthand:

Osage Fork

Gasconade above Hazelgreen

Little Piney Creek

Huzzah Creek

Courtois Creek

Mineral Fork

Castor River above Hwy. 34

St. Francois River from Silvermines to Sam A. Baker State Park

Big Creek

Black River from Lesterville to Clearwater Lake

Current River from Round Spring to Two Rivers

Jacks Fork

Eleven Point River below Hwy. 160

Others more familiar with them would have to figure out which streams in the western part of the state would benefit from this designation...remember that it's for streams that are not reaching their potential because they have too many small bass for the forage base. The streams in SW MO that have smallies with Neosho genetics would be in this category as well if they have numerous small fish.