I'm Really, Really Sick Of This...

[eric1978]

Well you should, MO is a CCW state now and it is legal. From what I see on here, all of the accesses are full of drunken giggers. I for one feel safer carrying something, although most of the places I go, I only run across a few rude city slickers every now and then.

I've never in my years on streams encountered a situation when I felt I needed a firearm. Now we have conditions in which confrontations that would have once ended with a bloody nose and some broken bones in a hand, can now readily end in brains on the gravel bar and another prisoner for the taxpayers to financially support. Great.

I say "how ya' doin'?" to anyone I see on the river. If they seem nice, I talk a while, if they seem weird, I move on. Never had a problem, and people won't bother you if you don't get in their business, even if they're up to no good.

I know of a few people that have CCLs that scare the hell out of me...They are perfectly legal, and they are perfectly nuts and dangerous.

We have a wolf by its ears now.

"You guys playing cards?" - Flounder

LMAO!!!

Why Flounder? Why not?

[Gary Lange]

I spent 27+ years carrying a gun as a Railroad cop in Chicago. Working alone most of the time. I could get a CCL very easy but resist it because of having done it for so long.

The crust of this thread is Illegal Gigging and to make a voice at the MDC and be heard is to have proof via pictures of Gigged Smallmouths. Without this it is just supposition and they are not going to place much credit on that at all. I have not waded any of the Streams down this way since I moved here in July 2005 so I am not familiar with any of this. I do have a good friend that Giggs and I asked him and his statement was that Gigging Season is for Suckers and that he does not gig Smallmouths and does not condone it.

If you get proof then write a letter and send it to the MDC. You are not going to get a time honored sport such as this banned anyway so try for more education and enforcement. They need to be aware that it is happening and how much and how often.

[ness]

Chief, you make very valid points about getting off our arses and actually doing something about it. Fact is, though, most people just don't have the time or inclination to tackle something like this. Count me among them.

We've got an ally in the SMA though. These guys have started the process, have meetings, inform through their web site, etc. Unless anyone feels like starting something from scratch, that just may be a good place to start, no? But the tone of previous threads was to complain about them -- not jump in and help. From an earlier post, I took it that SMA is aware of the problem, but doesn't consider it a major problem. Which, really, is in keeping with the initial premise -- that this is maybe a localized thing. Al was referring to a pretty specific problem and place, if I remember correctly. All the other nonsense about carrying guns, confronting poachers, banning gigging is just that -- nonsense.

[eric1978]

All the other nonsense about carrying guns, confronting poachers, banning gigging is just that -- nonsense.

True, but if nonsense was eliminated from the forum, it would be a pretty boring place. It might be in the wrong thread, but that doesn't mean it's not worth talking about.

[Kicknbass]

Gigging is banned in the trout management areas in missouri, but it is not banned in the SMA's. It would be interesting to stop gigging in the current SMA's and see if there is an increase in numbers and trophy sized fish.

There is good reason for this. It is extremely difficult to tell the difference between suckers and trout at night, from above while gigging. In addition, the trout and suckers inhabit the same open moving water. SMB tend to hang tight to cover, and you rarely see them while gigging. I would say that they would be at greatest risk in deep rocky cover when they are at the limit of visibility. Suckers are typically found at the top or bottom of a run similar to where you would find trout.

[Kicknbass]

MDC does a great job with the trout fisheries in the state, there are many diverse options to choose from. Blue ribbon to white ribbon, bait fisherman to purist fly fisherman have a place to go. It is just frustrating to me that non-native stocked trout which cost tax money to raise can get so much attention and enforcement while our native stream black bass get swept under the rug. If some of our better water was managed correctly, trophy fish would be much more common, and Missouri could compete with other states that have trophy smallmouth bass regulations.

I would agree w/ this.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Look, the thread you started up was kind of jumping the gun. You were already asking what we would do if smallie regulations were changed, when in fact that is what we are working on right now. You have to take these things one step at a time, if you know what I mean.

A river without its tributaries is just a trickle of water. Nothing more than the ditch in front of your house after a rain. A river must have contributions from all avenues, i.e. springs, smaller creeks, nutrients from the land, a balance of forage, and the list goes on, to work, to grow, to become a rich, vibrant living organism.

The most vocal on the subject of saving the smallmouth from a fictitious demise want to inflict severe limitations statewide on all fisherman, even though you have admitted to actually fishing very little, and at that, fishing only a limited number of waters. And yet, claim to be in the majority.

Anyway, there is no jumping the gun on a subject such as this. There is no chronological order which things have to be completed.

[Gary Lange]

I thought this was the discussion stage which I see as the first stage or am I wrong. I just figure you need to talk about something first before anything can be decided and then act on or submit those suggestions. What I see the Chief started was a discussion to obtain input and promote dialog on the subject.

[ozark trout fisher]

A river without its tributaries is just a trickle of water. Nothing more than the ditch in front of your house after a rain. A river must have contributions from all avenues, i.e. springs, smaller creeks, nutrients from the land, a balance of forage, and the list goes on, to work, to grow, to become a rich, vibrant living organism.

The most vocal on the subject of saving the smallmouth from a fictitious demise want to inflict severe limitations statewide on all fisherman, even though you have admitted to actually fishing very little, and at that, fishing only a limited number of waters. And yet, claim to be in the majority.

Anyway, there is no jumping the gun on a subject such as this. There is no chronological order which things have to be completed.

There's not necessarily a chronological order in which these things must be done, but to a certain degree it's only possible to do one thing at a time, and do it well. That's all I was saying. I respect your stream-team work in your part of the state. But I simply don't have enough time to do that. I know that sounds like an excuse, and maybe it is. But its also true.

And I never admitted to having fished very little. I just said that as things are right now, I don't get to fish as much as I used to, or at least that's what I meant to convey. And also, a fair bit of the info that I'm going on comes from folks that do do know the streams a lot better than I do. Also, I read what the MDC itself says. By all accounts, they believe that the existing SMAs are producing more and better smallmouth bass. I just happen to think that would extend nicely into a variety of other streams across Missouri.

Anyway, just about every time I make a point on this, you in some way or another say that I don't know enough about the issue to be worth listening to. I don't appreciate it.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Anyway, just about every time I make a point on this, you in some way or another say that I don't know enough about the issue to be worth listening to. I don't appreciate it.

Really? Would you mind showing me that quote and or quotes?