I'm Really, Really Sick Of This...

[Ham]

I was exocriated last winter for pondering why gigging is allowed.

I pretty much want fishing to be hook and line where the fish has some choice in taking the bait or lure AND I have some chance at releasing the fish alive. The streams had a natural balance with certain numbers of all species of fish. Sure, I like smallmouth bass more than all the other fish, but I think the " rough fish" to be valuable as well. If you want to eat suckers and red horse, I'm sure there is a way to catch them on a hook and line (and even on the fly) if fact I've done it.

[Forsythian]

Backwords thinking in my opinion...

I suppose you're right. Nowadays, it's backwards to favor personal responsibility and enforcement of existing laws. It's somehow more "progressive" to pass more and more laws. Punish the class instead of the student.

I'll take backwards any day.

[Forsythian]

A few weeks ago I was on Beaver Creek and saw three dead smallmouth lying on the stream bed all of them were about as big as the biggest smallmouth I've pulled out of that stream. On my way up river right at the access point where I started I saw twenty or so cut up suckers and a dead deer that had it's antlers cut off and the rest was left to rot in the river. I can only assume that the dead smallmouth were a result of giggers and if the deer was something that they were apart of then my god these must have been some very revolting people.

Outlaw deer hunting, that'll solve your wanton waste problem. Or are you seriously saying that giggers killed that deer? Maybe that deer sauntered up to the fire to get warm... or maybe he was a-swimmin' and they gigged him!

Heck, I heard that giggers were responsible for kidnapping Lindbergh's baby! And it weren't Lee Harvey what killed Kennedy, it were giggers!!

Quite a posse you got here Al... some real critical thinkers.

[KCRIVERRAT]

Forsythian... the words "gigging" and "sport" shouldn't be used in the same sentence.

[KCRIVERRAT]

By the way, isn't "moonlighting" deer illegal?

[Al Agnew]

Like I said, I have no hope whatsoever that gigging will be curtailed, let alone outlawed. And if there was a way to police it, I wouldn't want it to be curtailed. But there simply isn't. I don't think you can compare it to any other type of poaching. Spotlighting? Spotlighting is illegal, period. Anybody who goes out at night to spotlight deer (on public roads where it's easy for anybody to drive, including law enforcement) takes the risk of being caught in the act, and they can't use the excuse that they were just spotlighting rabbits, since that's equally as illegal. Anybody who catches and keeps smallmouth during the closed season, or who catches more than their limit, or who keeps undersized fish, can't specifically target the biggest fish they see.

If you were relating it to spotlighting, here's how it would be...

Pretend that spotlighting rabbits is legal. Pretend that at night most of the deer in a region always move into the same few fields, way out in the boonies, where there are also a lot of rabbits. Pretend that the people who want to spotlight rabbits have the equipment to go to those fields, which are public land but totally surrounded be private land, or they live on the private land next to those fields. Getting to those fields isn't easy and requires specialized vehicles, which make a lot of noise and light. So the poachers go to those fields, and along with shooting rabbits they also shoot every huge buck they see. Remember that nearly all the deer in the area, including nearly all the big bucks, are in those few fields, so as a result nearly all the big bucks are shot. The conservation agent, needing the same type of equipment as the poachers to get to those fields, can only approach them making noise and using lights, so the poachers know they are coming. If the agent checks them coming out of the area where the fields are, they only have rabbits in their vehicle--they've left the deer to rot. And the agent can only check those who don't live next to the fields.

Obviously, that scenario is totally unrealistic. But that's the way gigging is, unlike spotlighting. You have a sport done at night, in places where it takes a boat, usually a jetboat, to get there, surrounded by private land that is difficult at best to access except at a few public spots. In late fall and winter, you have the smallmouth congregated in just a few wintering pools, the same pools that have most of the suckers. You have giggers with good enough equipment that in decent conditions they can probably see most of the smallmouth congregated in those pools, and with the ability to gig every big smallmouth they see. And the only way they get caught is if the conservation agent also has a jetboat, and is somehow able to sneak up on them (in a jetboat, at night) and see them in the act of sticking a smallmouth. Can't prove it if they've already gigged the smallie and shook it off the gig. If they are using a public access, they know that's a spot where they are more likely to be checked, so they aren't going to keep the smallmouth and risk being caught with it in their possession. If using a private access, they know the chances are nil the agent is going to check them there.

Can there BE a legal sport that's more impossible to police? So, Forsythian, what do you do IF studies would show illegal gigging to have a major impact on big smallmouth? Keep in mind, the big ones are relatively rare anyway, and concentrated in limited areas in the winter, so common sense would tell you that just one or two bad apples can have a really serious impact on the big fish population, so I have no doubt whatsoever that illegal gigging is a major limiting factor on the production of big fish. But assume that studies show that to be so, not just my opinion and anecdotal evidence. What do you do? How do you police it? Is there any way to allow gigging and protect big game fish?

[Wayne SW/MO]

Needless to say there are a fair number of giggers that kill gamefish, probably for the most part on accident.

They're not accidents, they see better than you or I do in sunlight.

There is no limitations on gigging, not trout, not equipment, none and its not the sport that's protected, but the harvest.

They have literally "overgigged" and in order to feed the crowd that always follows the traditional, they take 8" Hog Molly's and any smallmouth they think they can get away with. They've pretty well wiped out the big Redhorses.

I don't think the problem lies in the sport, but in the equipment and the "new" members it draws. Its about as close to shooting fish in a barrel as one can get, with metal halide lighting, gas motors, light weight gigs, and cell phones, there's little resemblance to wooden shaft gigs, paddles and pine bolls. The new gigger can go deeper and spear a fish frozen in a blinding light, and then use the phone to insure its safe to bring illegal fish to the pot.

I suspect that if a real effort was made to limit gigging to something that resembled the old sport it would be successful if done right. A picture is worth a thousand words and in this case could probably acquire thousands of allies.

[smallmouthjoe]

Outlaw deer hunting, that'll solve your wanton waste problem. Or are you seriously saying that giggers killed that deer? Maybe that deer sauntered up to the fire to get warm... or maybe he was a-swimmin' and they gigged him!

Heck, I heard that giggers were responsible for kidnapping Lindbergh's baby! And it weren't Lee Harvey what killed Kennedy, it were giggers!!

Quite a posse you got here Al... some real critical thinkers.

Sir, if you read my post I said IF the giggers were involved with the dead deer. Obviously I can't say if they were or were not involved in the killing and wasting of the deer. To me whether or not the deer was killed by the giggers or by someone else is is not really the point. The point is that they both are wasteful and unneeded so in a since they are the same thing, abuse of the natural resources. In my post I also didn't advocate the institution of new laws or new taxes for more enforcement, I too advocated personal responsibility. I feel it's my personal responsibility to alert law enforcement of any poaching, be it of deer or fish. If you have anything constructive to add please go ahead and add reply to this, but there is no need to insult me. Have a nice day.

[Forsythian]

Yes KC, moonlighting deer is illegal, and it still takes place. If you outlaw deer hunting altogether, then you don't have to worry about it.

You can't swing a dead cat in the Upper Taneycomo forum without hitting a topic of people using power bait in the restricted zone, or keeping fish in the slot. Take the fishermen off that stretch of river, and you don't have to patrol it either.

I've gigged out of Hootentown for 10 years now, and not once have I seen a game warden. You get wardens out at the major launches for a year or two, and they say more regulation is needed, then you'll turn some ears. You do some legitamite management studies, then you'll turn some ears. Better for me that you all sit here in your echo chamber and trade horror stories about "THEM".

Oh, and keep an eye to your left, because there's plenty of busy bodies who don't care much for your "sport" either.

[Forsythian]

Sir, if you read my post I said IF the giggers were involved with the dead deer. Obviously I can't say if they were or were not involved in the killing and wasting of the deer. To me whether or not the deer was killed by the giggers or by someone else is is not really the point. The point is that they both are wasteful and unneeded so in a since they are the same thing, abuse of the natural resources. In my post I also didn't advocate the institution of new laws or new taxes for more enforcement, I too advocated personal responsibility. I feel it's my personal responsibility to alert law enforcement of any poaching, be it of deer or fish. If you have anything constructive to add please go ahead and add reply to this, but there is no need to insult me. Have a nice day.

Joe, sorry, but your post had that "how often do you beat your wife?" flavor to it... plus, the image of the deer staying warm by the fire was too humorous to pass up! Thicker skin will keep you warmer in the wintertime.

I'm all about reporting poachers... a concerted effort by ethical giggers to close ranks and weed out the bad apples might be the only thing to save the sport.