Your Fastest Derby Limit

[Paul Nienhaus]

6 fish - 1 hour - individual limit - table rock

I thought this was a fun question.

[SKMO]

Darn it I was going to stay out of this completely but there have been some real good points made here as of recent, and I am completely out of popcorn so I might as well type.

Greybear and Sam in post 41 and 42 hit upon a topic (tourneys) I wanted to jump in a couple days ago, but decided not to, thankfully, because it is now “their gorilla” Smiley Face you guys! Nothing like dragging a fat hen off the nest and taking her on a 30 mile ride to K-city to ensure success of the nest ! We don’t often talk the Gorilla because... that’s what some folks like to do, tourney fish during the spawn.

And we as humans like to compare the conduct of others against our own standards, morals and philosophy. So as concerned as we might be for the fishery we still haul bags of gravid sows to the weigh in if it is in our interest. You can Google gravid if necessary.

I do not need a short course on population biology and recruitment, because I do know the basics of that. (Out of the thousands of eggs dropped it only takes 2 of them to hatch and make it to reproductive size for the population to be stable etc etc).

Luckily, I believe the lake is pretty resilient. Actually I am positive it is resilient or we would not have the fine fishery we do, seeing the pressure it gets.

Then good ol’ DenJac jumps in at post 43 and points out the Most Obvious Fact Of All (Gorilla #2 in Room): The Whole Story is BullSugar. I’m all for a finely-crafted fish story that ages well with time among friends. I have several fish-tales of my own and some have evolved nicely. This one….. not so much. I must call BS, and it needs a total overhaul.

My PET PEEVE as far as killing/harvesting bass are the pics in local tabloids, and Resort Websites of dead bass hanging on a wire stringer on the dock of “Such and Such Resort.” What a fertile ground of folks to get on board.

An opinion: Don’t overlook the importance of letting a novice bag some fish and follow the process from the end of the rod to the table. There is a real connection happening there. That first experience or two will be what hooks them (no pun intended) and turns them into a fisherman or fisherwoman. That’s what did it for me decades ago and I imagine many others as well.

Can you imagine recruiting and training a young person to hunt, and then letting them avoid, actually deny them the opportunity, to get bloody and involved once they got their first dove or duck or squirrel or deer? They have to understand how this goes, and see it through from field to table and decide if it is for them. Same with fishing.

A fact: Guides and avid fisherman on the Rock are pretty protective of the bass-fish, myself included and I am but a lowly nimrod fisherman. Give us a break if any of us get possessive or protective of what we would like to promote and preserve for all of us.

It's good to be passionate about things we enjoy. We can't always agree on them but I can explain mine and enjoy hearing about yours.

Fact is this lake gets hammered, hammered hard, and is still hanging in there nicely. Lot’s of fish caught and some are harvested. (Arsenal - harvested is more politically correct than kill but I am just fine with either term). Lots and lots of fish carted to K-City destroying nests. Lots of fish accidently killed. Lots of illegal and short fish disappear as well. Lots of people do things they do not realize are illegal or not kosher if they had better mentors and instruction early on, which should be our charge and challenge.

I am sure my opinions leaked through as I am a C&R guy but don’t get too twisted about someone keeping a couple if that is important to them and will keep them in the game.

Just about split my gizzard over the original 50# bag of fish posting however. I just hope KVD does not check in on this board cause you will flat run him off the circuit next year if you decide to belly up to the bar.

SKMO

[Bill Babler]

Wow!!! Been working the last couple of days and thought I had a fun one going and now its this. Here boys and girls are the cold hard facts, and I hope this answers all your questions.

First off as of 2006, the last creel check study on Table Rock Lake, do you know what the average ammount of time it took to catch a keeper bass was? I do. 1 every 8 man hours.

As of the year 2000, do you know what the number of Keeper Black Bass you would have been allowed to retain for consumption from Table Rock Lake, had it not been for the economic impact of fishing tournaments? I do. 3 fifteen inch fish per day.

Do you know what the number of Keeper bass would be today if it were not for the economic impact of fishing tournaments? I do. 3 per day.

The impact of a 5 or 6 fish limit, is justified not as a measure to curb, or to maintain a level as far as a population control method. It is there to attract and maintain the attention of fishing organizations that wish to come to our area.

This money is not looked at in the 10's of millions, but the hundreds of millions.

MDC, has no reason to move the limit, for the most part 90% of the people cannot catch a limit, and the 10% that can, release the fish.

Do you know the number of bass you would be allowed to keep if 95% of the total bass fishing population of Table Rock lake were not catch and release? I don't know this one. But I was told at one time by our fisheries biologist, that if the tournaments and the guides all kept their fish, It would take no time to cripple the population to a point of extreme danger. This will never be a factor, as the derby's turn the fish loose and 99% of the guides do the same.

I have fished Table Rock, since 1966. I have seen the wonderful and I have seen the horrible. It currently is not wonderful, it is pretty good.

I'm not standing up for the tournaments, I usually only fish 3 or so a year, with a couple of those being charity events. Those of you that want to keep Bass on Table Rock, better cheer them on, cause when and if they are ever gone, so will be the 6 bass limit.

I would love to see the day on Table Rock, and I have stated this many times that folks should hire a guide because they want to, not because they cannot catch fish. A huge percentage of my clients are still, I cannot catch fish.

Pleae don't be confused about Bass limits on Table Rock lake. They are what they are, and they have absolutely nothing to do with population control. It has to do with MONEY. The small portion that keep fish are really not harming the lake. It is just sad that they are so shallow sighted.

Sam made a wonderful point however. Catching and keeping fish at the tail end of their life span is much better than keeping fish at the beginning of it. Eric's Point is also very well taken in that the genitics in that gene pool are not plentyfull at all in Table Rock. Bass over 5 pounds are extremely rare. "I MEAN EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY RARE.

Take 10 of the best guides on Table Rock, for the entire year, and all 10 might have at the most each, between 5 and 10 fish that weight that much, with 1000's of hrs. on the water. That is their clients included. "They ain't just swimmin everywhere."

Yes it is legal to keep your 6 fish. Yes it is legal to shoot 6 quail out of a covey of 8. Yes it is legal to walk for 3 days and then kill the only rooster you see on your pheasant hunt. Yes it is legal to cut to pieces Sow Bass and watch their eggs spill off the cutting board. If that is the way you feel you must be in your life, you only have yourself and the almight to answer to.

In no way should this fishery be ever even mentioned in the same sentence as management deer hunting. Deer huning is a management numbers control method. Fishing limits are set to control over harvest, not to reduce numbers. Its kind of hard to practice catch and release deer management. Our numbers are what they are because of the ecomomic impact and that we release fish and they know it. It has absolutely nothing to do with over population control.

Table Rock Lake is not at this time a place to come to thinking I'll have a blast here, catch and eat fish and then take limits home for the freezer, or to give away. Just not that type of a deal. We have millions of man hours of fishing prussure on this fishery and it is UNSTOCKED and has to be able to self sustain. It cannot even come close if we are not good shepards. MDC, knows we are and that is why it is what it is.

Here is a pretty good life cycle of our Black Bass Populations:

Life and Breeding Span of Kentucky Bass: Up to 16 yrs. of life with a breeding span of 13 yrs. 15 inches on the 7th. year.

Largemouth Bass: 12 to 13 yr. life span with a breeding span of 10 yrs. 15 inches after 5th. year.

Smallmouth Bass: 12 to 14 yr. life span with a breeding span of 10 to 11 yrs. 15 inches after 5th. year.

What this boils down to is from the 3rd. year of life to a natural death, these fish are repopulating a lake that is nowhere near the level it has been in the past. Removing breeding fish at anytime never has a positive effect on the bass populations.

Those of us that hold it so dear to our hearts have a hard time with the killing of the fish. The joy I see on peoples faces when that fish crashes a topwater lure is undiscribable. A childs first catch, a 90 year old telling me he was here in the hayday, and "Boy has it Changed." A fishermen asking me. "Can I Kiss it?" It's all about Table Rock. I cannot remember the last day I fished or guided that I didn't catch a fish or even a 1/2 dozen that had not been caught and released before. I always think of the joy they must have given that person that released them again for that 90 years old to recatch. How can you kill anything that makes you smile that much?

You got a fishin licenses and you want to kill fish, I have said it before thats up to you. I just don't want to hear about it. As another person, pointed out, it is very disrespectful on this forum, to mention it.

We as guides give 100's of hours to this forum, and really ask very little. We do ask that you be respectful of the fishery, and this board. We also ask that you allow us to have an opinion, from time to time and not only be a source of free information.

1477 your not from here. You have not struggled through what we have. You have not seen this fishery as we have. It is not the same, or may never be the same. We are very protective of it and are expected to me by MDC.

Congratulation on your spectacular catch, one that I or dare I say, no one on this board has ever seen, or may ever see.

Please feel free to do as you please when you are here, but also remember how dear this fishery is to the most of us.

Good Luck out there.

[Sam]

That's a great post, Bill - I agree entirely. It's easy to see that you love what you're doing and the place you're doing it in, that's something rare for any of us to achieve.

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"Table Rock Lake is not at this time a place to come to thinking I'll have a blast here, catch and eat fish and then take limits home for the freezer, or to give away. Just not that type of a deal."

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Oh, yes it is, because I've found the way around that. I'm the guy out there happily looking for and catching crappie, white bass, walleyes, goggleyes, black perch, bluegills, catfish, and grabbing suckers and putting them all right next to the fried 'taters and onions every chance I get. I'm not a fish hog and I'm real strict about observing limits and length limits, but I'll bring 'em home if I can.

And when I catch a black bass, big or small, back it goes. So many people have fun with those bass, and so much depends on them, I'm real glad to put them back. That way we all get along just fine - and hey, if you bass fishermen see some white bass boiling or if you can't keep the slab crappie off your grubs, flag me down and let me know about it, huh?

[snakem]

Ride ON BILL,Wish I could speek that good :touched:Awsome reply.Just wish everybody felt more the same way. Now lets every one get off this subject and have a good c/r fishing trip.

Snakem Out.

[arsenal1477]

not going to lie, that was an amazing post bill. i didnt know there was a 6 bass limit, i was always told 5. so there is no confusion, however, the limit caught was between my father and i(his limit and mine). a 50# limit was just a guestimate give or take a pound or two. is it really that far fetched that someone can catch a 25lb bag of fish on TR? it was a great night, to say that its a bogus story is unruley. no offense to you bill but to say i caught 5 keepers in under a minute, despite the rig, seems like more of a ball buster to me but dare i question it. had you even had 5 hooks on one rod, to have that many keepers on and to take them on and boat them in under 1 minute would be an amazing feat in itself. lets be real, that too may had been just a tad bit exagerated, give or take a minute or two. in all honesty, i was right there along side of you guys during the fish kills. i was there a few years back when they were dying off, the lake was about 20 feet under flood pool. i remember the smell of dead fish everywhere, who could forget. while i may not spend my life on that lake or rely on it for my bread and butter, im just as familar with TR as most locals. do i question, however, what you guys do on your guiding trips or during your tournements? no. in fact it pisses me off to no end when i work my butt off an entire year to pay for the only trip i look forward to, to get down there and be embeded amongst 300 tourney anglers with no respect and flying all over the darn lake. i understand completely the locals love for the bass and i was there through the same darn thing, but in no way would i impede on your way of life by judging you. the lake is back, its amazing(aside from the moss). you all should be very proud of that lake, but lets not forget that most of those guided trips you make are the people VISTING, your bread and butter. there are people from all over the country that make annual trips to that lake and call it home, such as myself. we helped get that lake back to where it should be just as much as any other fella in this forum. there have been many valid points made in this forum, but to jump ship and harass someone such as myself for taking my second bag of fish home in almost 30 years is absolutely ridiculous and you should be ashamed. i realize i mistakingly made a touchy comment, but nowhere did i say in my original post that i killed those fish or made some marxist comment. take a look back, read what i posted and then follow that with the ridiculous comments there after. fishing is suppose to be fun, relaxing, and for most of us non-locals, a break from the real world. our story from last year will always be told over a bottle of jamesons because i highly doubt a night like that will ever happen to me again. should i be sitting here saying thank you to all of you and your hard work for the amazing fishing TR was able to give my father and i that night? THAAT WOULD BE A NO. i should be thanking myself. i have practiced just as much catch and release as all of you(if not more), i helped support a great cause and god willing, was able to enjoy a few nights out of an absolutely horrible year. should i be sitting here divulging to you this information when all i did was make a comment about catching and keeping a few fish? hell no again, but i do it because i love the lake and i, unlike quite a few in here, respect all fishermen. we all share one thing in common, when we caught our first fish, our faces lit up, we got shaky and our hearts went crazy. i strive for that anytime i fish, where ever i am. furthermore, im respectful of the fishery and this 'board'. not once have i said anything threatening unlike a few in here. when i made my comment, not one person informed that it was a 'sin', i was immediately hung up to dry. there was no support. is that how you treat all of your customers? to have an opinion is one thing, but to verbally come at someone is a different area all together. WE have all helped make that fishery the fishery it is today and the one it will be tomorrow. It does not do your business, the fishery, or this board any good to shoot someone down for something they had no way of knowing was of offense. if you were gay and i made a homosexual remark in this forum you wouldnt try to kill me, you would try to provide knowledge of why what was said was wrong. after my comment was made, not one person tried to inform me of this. for the 90th darn time, i apologize for mentioning that i took the bass home for a fish fry. if it will all make you feel better i will write that on a chalk board 100 times and ground myself to my room. does that make everyone satisfied? great. wheres the darn jamesons?

[denjac]

.

An opinion: Don’t overlook the importance of letting a novice bag some fish and follow the process from the end of the rod to the table. There is a real connection happening there. That first experience or two will be what hooks them (no pun intended) and turns them into a fisherman or fisherwoman. That’s what did it for me decades ago and I imagine many others as well.

It's good to be passionate about things we enjoy. We can't always agree on them but I can explain mine and enjoy hearing about yours.

That kinda jolted me where I came from as a teenager. Thanks for reminding me.

[S&M]

"The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim."

Gustave Le Bon (1841-1931)

[Champ188]

Admitting that this thread has pretty much run its useful life, I gotta say this: Arsenal, you say you "harvested" these lunkers in the name of Christianity, yet your last post is littered with cursing and you seem to have quite an affection for alcoholic beverages. And you call US hypocrites?

[eric1978]

Arsenal, you say you "harvested" these lunkers in the name of Christianity, yet your last post is littered with cursing and you seem to have quite an affection for alcoholic beverages. And you call US hypocrites?

Hypocrisy and Christianity? Nooo, never! You must live a pretty boring life being so perfect, Champ. Leave the poor guy alone. So he kept some bass. I don't, you don't, some do. Some batter fish to death in tournaments. You act like he filleted your dog.