Your Fastest Derby Limit

[Chief Grey Bear]

Where is the uproar from tournament mortality? There have been numerours studies conducted over the years stating that the mortality rate of bass from tournaments is as high as 50%. How many tournaments are held on T-Rock every year? What is the total number of fish weighed in? Not to mention the culls.

Maybe that is where you all should be directing your anger.

[Sam]

Where is the uproar from tournament mortality?

OK, Chief Grey Bear finally mentioned the 800-lb. gorilla in the room!

I've been biting my tongue for two days reading this thread, and thinking EXACTLY that. I'm a panfisherman who seldom fishes for bass, and I don't keep bass when I catch them. But, you KNOW tournaments have to kill 'way more Tablerock trophy bass than the few non-tournament fishermen who choose to keep and eat them. You just can't stick that many holes in that many bass on a wholesale basis without killing a bunch of them.

I say that with full respect and appreciation of the great efforts tournaments make to keep bass alive. But though they're doing their best, they just can't save all those fish - some get gut-hooked, gill-hooked, eyeball-hooked, infections set in, fish get stressed, and some of them conk out.

I actually do keep a few legal bass every year, the ones that aren't going to make it - and I'm sure that happens to every fisherman including the hundreds of people fishing tournaments.

So I'm not criticizing in any way - just saying that I'm sure weekend fishermen kill far fewer trophy bass on purpose than tournament fishermen kill by accident. Not looking for a fight, just sayin'.

[denjac]

Well put Sam. Tournamnet fishermen at least try to keep them alive. Chief, just picking my battles as they come to me. I will be the first to whine when a weigh in spot has floaters all over the place. In my opinion Arsenals post was just a big whopper story and he inserted the killing part just to ruffle some feathers, even though he said he didnt. Just think about it 10 fish over 5 pounds each in 10- 14 casts in less than 30 minutes.

[Chief Grey Bear]

That is why all the studies Denjac. You won't find them floating at the weigh in. Check this out: http://www.sdafs.org/tcafs/meetings/96meet/gillilan.htm

So this research is 15 years old. What has changed in the tournaments to lessen the problem? As you say "Tournamnet fishermen at least try to keep them alive." Really? I am trying to find some newer research to show the the mortality rates have dropped. I am still looking.

[denjac]

That is why all the studies Denjac. You won't find them floating at the weigh in. Check this out: http://www.sdafs.org/tcafs/meetings/96meet/gillilan.htm

So this research is 15 years old. What has changed in the tournaments to lessen the problem? As you say "Tournamnet fishermen at least try to keep them alive." Really? I am trying to find some newer research to show the the mortality rates have dropped. I am still looking.

I am sure there is delayed death after a tournamnet but didnt find there test too efficiant. They held up to 30 fish in a large net for 6 days. The probably died of starvation and stress. I would be all for no summer tournamnets, or say when water temp is past say 75 degrees. I know there is a magic temp range at which bass can be hauled weighed in and released without any mortality. The big death rates come from hot summer tournaments. But just like eating bass, its legal so whats a guy to do?

[Chief Grey Bear]

With all due respect, we both know a bass will not starve to death in 6 days. But I will agree that stress most likely lead to their death. The stress of getting beat around in a livewell, hauled in a bag and dropped into a laundry basket to be weighed, being hoisted into the air and showed to the crowd, thrown into a large tank with all of the other bass and then dropped off in the middle of the lake.

I am no fan of tournaments but like you say they are leagal. I do think they need to limit the number of them held on a lake per year. Fat chance of that happening. Its all about the $$$. But darn the person that legally harvests a large bass.

If I only had a dollar for every bass mount I have seen in my life that says "Table Rock".

[arsenal1477]

denjac, is it not possible that it maybe was a mistake on my part to use the wrong terminology such as 'kill'? i get on this forum to gather tips, hot spots and to prepare for my trip when i come to TR, not make this a social call out to my buddies i have never met. with that, how was i suppose to know there would be such an uproar in this forum? if i was telepathic i wouldnt had made that statement but instead adopted the name Cleo and started a hotline foretelling everyones future. i appologize for "ruffling" ones feathers, it was NEVER my intent, but like i said, if your that nieve to accuse me the way in which a murderer would be, then a lot of people in this forum have way more problems going on in there life and i would love to help out any way that i can. The person who wrote about the tournements hit it right on the head. There are guides and tournement anglers in this room judging me as if i killed there best friend, but are probably fishing in a tournement this week-end knowing that half of the fish they keep are going to end up dying anyways. While it was extremely presumptuous to judge me on an innocent statetment and noting that the outrageous remarks make agianst myself are commical at best, im glad this conversation came about. I had no idea fish mortality rates were as high as they were from tournements, certain guides that were against me taking home fish for a benefit admited using selective harvest to fillet bass every year(i thought killing any bass was bad?), and that i was surrounded by anglers that were radicals. the things we learn in these little forums. someone asked for popcorn and a coke, ill just take a jamesons on the rocks...make that 2.

[arsenal1477]

denjac, after reviewing what i had originally posted about that limit, no where in that post did i mention the word kill and if you read it again, is a completely innocent post.

[Cajunangler]

I probably should stay out of this as well but I have to applaud Chief Grey Bear because that was my immediate thought when everyone starts talking about keeping and eating a bass. It was said many times but if you are within the limits of the law why should anyone have the right to say you are doing soemthing wrong. Likewise, if you don't like the current law try and get it changed. BUT beware, sometimes (if not everytime) you start getting our wonderful politicians involved you may end up with a law that goes beyond the scope of "what you think you want." And they may deem any type of fishing to be harmful to the environment.

The couple additional comments I did not see mentioned might also be things to think about when it comes to mortality from tournaments. 1) If people at TRock are anything like the ones we see on ESPN a bass usually spends several seconds flopping around the floor of their boat before they can get the hooks removed, compare it to others allready in the well, and then finally either release or exchange it with a previously caught bass. 2) Has there been any studies done seeing if the tournament fishermen are responsible for spreading LM Bass virus. After all, they are probably visiting far more different lakes than the local weekend angler and I would be very suprised to here that they are required to clean and sanitize their live wells prior to fishing from one location to the next.

My one final thought involves a possible corilation with deer hunting. From time to time deer populations become too large for nature to support. At that point the local management authorities either issue additional permits for thinning the heards or some other alternative to reduce their numbers. Anyway, my point is simply I am sure there would also be a similar situation with bass populations if no one ever kept any (except for the mortality from tournaments). I know the lake isn't at that point as of now but I would hope the MDC took that into consideration when it set the current size and number limits. I know I have seen ponds that have bass with overly large heads and thin bodies due to lack of forage and I can only hope that is part of why the MDC still allows a fisherman to legally keep a certain number of bass if he chooses.

[arsenal1477]

agreed on completely...Chief Grey Bear "can be my wing man anytime"