Can Earth Survive?

[eric1978]

I am looking to further educate myself.

No you're not. You've listened to lies and believed them for too long, and now your mind is made up. The answers could be laid out in front of you, and I'm sure at several times in your life they have been, and you refused to look. I applaud Al for consistently and methodically laying out logical and rational explanations with facts and sources for the deniers, even though he knows they will always refuse to listen to reason. It's a complete waste of time, and I've spent all I care to on this one. You're a lost cause, and I wash my hands. Keep on blindly fighting for the oil and coal companies, and the polluters and billionaire CEOs. We're all fried eggs in the end.

[Trout Commander]

It's a complete waste of time, and I've spent all I care to on this one. You're a lost cause, and I wash my hands. Keep on blindly fighting for the oil and coal companies, and the polluters and billionaire CEOs.

You really are dense. Did you have to go to the special classroom in school where the teacher read all of your tests to you so you could pass because you had a lack of reading comprehension?

I do NOT fight for the oil companies and coal companies. Please show me where I have. (Also still waiting for you to point out where I said fossil fuels did not effect the environment).

And for the record, I am only 21 and have only recently started educating myself on these important matters in the last two years. I do believe that it is your leftist self that has been fully indoctrinated and is the lost cause.

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Look forward to the info Al!

[Al Agnew]

Here's the simplest version...

Human activities pump 26 billion tons of CO2 into the atmosphere each year.

All volcanic activity on earth pumps 200 million tons a year.

(From the U.S. Geological Survey)

Further, Mt. St. Helens had very little impact on climate over the entire Earth. Large volcanic eruptions CAN have short term (on the order of 5 years or so) cooling effects depending upon the amount of ash and sulphur dioxide they put up. But according to the USGS, St. Helens' effect was only on the local climate because of the way the SO2 was ejected...it never made up into the upper atmosphere. When SO2 from an eruption spreads across the upper atmosphere it reacts with water vapor to form reflective clouds, thus lowering the amount of UV that enters the lower atmosphere. Mt. Pinatubo was the most recent volcano to cause major climate disruption (which lasted about 5 years).

What people don't seem to realize is that although volcanic eruptions can be spectacular events, big eruptions are ONE TIME events on a human time scale. Human activities that affect climate are ongoing, year after year after year activities that have a cumulative effect. You could consider volcanic activity to be "background" CO2 or "natural" CO2, which the planet deals with. Human activities are putting up CO2 and other greenhouse gases at rates that far exceed the "background" or natural sources, and ARE ADDING TO THEM. So if there weren't those human activities, the CO2 in the atmosphere would remain relatively stable, with short term blips when there was a big eruption, and once every million years or so a catastrophic "blip" when a super-volcano erupted or some other major event occurred--asteroid strike, etc.

Just stop and think about it for a minute...we are digging up carbon that took millions and millions of years to be sequestered underground and out of the atmosphere in the form of fossil fuels. Millions of years of plants taking it, dying, being buried, and slowly turning into oil and coal. And we're throwing those millions of years of buried carbon into the atmosphere in a matter of 100 years or less. Doesn't it make just a LITTLE bit of sense to you that something like that just MIGHT have some effect on the climate?

If a MO State professor actually said that, either it was a throwaway line or he's an idiot.

[eric1978]

(Also still waiting for you to point out where I said fossil fuels did not effect the environment).

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Now global warming driven by greenhouse gases may lead to even wilder climate fluctuations in different parts of the world. Rates of increasing carbon dioxide areapproximately 100 times greater than most changes previously seen during geologic time, according to researchers on the Ocean Carbon & Biogeochemistry website.

Makes you wonder how many other fallacies and falsehoods are strewn throughout this article.

[Trout Commander]

I plan on fishing this one tonight, anyone else going to make it?? If you are an EMT please send me your cell phone #.

^^Disregard that, not sure how I got my wires crossed to insert that one in here lol.

The professor had a 50 min lecture on the topic.

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That was a good read. I would like to see the figures they used to generate the yearly average from though. The numbers don;t seem to make sense to me using this logic. If it takes the Earth 5 years to recover from an eruption and there are eruptions far more frequently than every 5 years, how is there not a surplus of co2 built up without interference. Additionally what about the Suns increased warming effect due to the holes in the ozone layer from CFC's (which yes are man made, but not caused from fossil fuels)? Would that not attribute the increased temperatures?

Lastly, even if co2's are the root of all this evil, the Earth cannot keep up with out production of them, even if CRU didn't make everything up and neither did Al Gore, our Earth's temperature has taken a downward trend in the last nearly decade. Whereas I still feel that the warming was due to cyclical heating/cooling which human kind has had little effect on, going back to me original statement wherein the Earth was still on its way out of an ice age and our actions as a race were mearly a drop in the big ole temperature change bucket.

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But again Al, what you posted was a good read and I will be nosing around the sites/orginazations you referenced. You do use perfect logic and seem to be well educated and informed on the subject. Something I admittedly am not, and I can only form my opinions on what I have learned so far. I look forward to your answers to my questions in this post. It is people like Eric that seem to be very lacking in not only knowledge of the subject, facts and basis, but also only shout there opinion as loud as long and as many times as possible that can make people who may be on the fence sway the other way because it seems completely unfounded coming from a dolt like him.

I guess criers make deniers ?

[Trout Commander]

JDC, on 23 June 2010 - 09:41 AM, said:

(Also still waiting for you to point out where I said fossil fuels did not effect the environment).

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jdmidwest, on 21 June 2010 - 09:17 PM, said:

Now global warming driven by greenhouse gases may lead to even wilder climate fluctuations in different parts of the world. Rates of increasing carbon dioxide areapproximately 100 times greater than most changes previously seen during geologic time, according to researchers on the Ocean Carbon & Biogeochemistry website.

JDC, on 22 June 2010 - 08:57 AM, said:

Makes you wonder how many other fallacies and falsehoods are strewn throughout this article.

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You seriously cannot read can you? I am sorry I poked fun at your disability earlier. I apologize for that. Grab someone who can for you and have them read you what you quoted from JD. The part where it says "even wilder climate fluctuations". Then have them read the accusation you made against me, wherein you stated that I stated "fossil fuels did not effect the environment". Now have them explain the difference.

You must have missed the day in remedial reading where they covered the defenitions of climate and environment so this will be a good lesson for you

[Thom]

Quote:I am not a denier, Al Gore is a liar!

NO wonder the earth is going to be destroyed by all of the global warming etc. The audacity of such a satatement about Al Gore.

If it wouldnt have been for him and his insight of inventing the internet and then getting legislation passed for even poor common folks like us could have used this very forum wouldn't have been possible.

Show some respect for a Nobel Prize winner.

[ozark trout fisher]

JDC, on 23 June 2010 - 09:41 AM, said:

(Also still waiting for you to point out where I said fossil fuels did not effect the environment).

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jdmidwest, on 21 June 2010 - 09:17 PM, said:

Now global warming driven by greenhouse gases may lead to even wilder climate fluctuations in different parts of the world. Rates of increasing carbon dioxide areapproximately 100 times greater than most changes previously seen during geologic time, according to researchers on the Ocean Carbon & Biogeochemistry website.

JDC, on 22 June 2010 - 08:57 AM, said:

Makes you wonder how many other fallacies and falsehoods are strewn throughout this article.

======================================================

You seriously cannot read can you? I am sorry I poked fun at your disability earlier. I apologize for that. Grab someone who can for you and have them read you what you quoted from JD. The part where it says "even wilder climate fluctuations". Then have them read the accusation you made against me, wherein you stated that I stated "fossil fuels did not effect the environment". Now have them explain the difference.

You must have missed the day in remedial reading where they covered the defenitions of climate and environment so this will be a good lesson for you

The best argument you have against climate change is to simply call those who believe in it idiots. The vast majority of scientists believe it is the case, and we know the greenhouse effect is real. I'll believe scientists, not Rush Limbaugh.

Frankly, I can't stand it when fisherman don't want to protect our environment. We use it for our passion, and yet some of us don't care to protect it.

[eric1978]

You must have missed the day in remedial reading where they covered the defenitions of climate and environment so this will be a good lesson for you

Your personal attacks are getting old, and this will be my last response to you: The word you are trying to type is spelled "definition." I usually refrain from correcting grammar, but the irony in this case is just too glaring (and hilarious) to ignore. Good day, sir.

[Phil Lilley]

These subjects and arguments are getting old. I'm going to be closing a lot of topics tonight, I think.