Has Branson "jumped The Shark"

[Outside Bend]

As a 20 year-old who has grown up with the "music" from Nelly and his fellow rappers, I can honestly say that it IS the death of culture. There is no style, not much originality, intelligence, or culture associated with it. I truly hate rap music and pretty much anything that goes along with it. As someone said earlier- the kids that go to shows are mindless zombies. At least the music from previous generations challenged people to think about their world or form their own opinions about the meaning of the music. Not to mention that the bands were actually SKILLED MUSICIANS. With rap, there's no skill or thought involved- just get high and go off "pimpin' some hoes" to some beat playing at a soothing billion and 5 decibels.

And for the record, there is very little current music that compares to previous eras, both in substance and in skill. People just aren't as creative anymore.

Rob

As another twenty-something I'd have to disagree. All of your arguments against rap can just as easily be applied to classic rock, and many other musical genres-

The Beatles, Bob Dylan, Eric Clapton, Led Zeppelin, The Doors, CCR, The Grateful Dead, Allman Brothers, and myriad other classic rock bands grafted lyrics and tunes from previous blues, pop, and motown artists and incorporated them into their own songs- how is that original? I'm not sure how much depth or deep introspection about your worldview you can derive fro a song about a yellow submarine, or a transvestite named Lola, a blind Elton John who can play pinball really well, or a song about money cleverly titled "Money."

If Nelly fans are mindless zombies, what were the Beatlemaniacs at the Ed Sullivan Show and elsewhere? The Beatles got weird in part because they knew people would buy millions of their records no matter what. What about the folks at Altamont, or the folks dancing at the Grateful Dead concerts, or the people who still believe "Born in the USA," is a patriotic tribute to our country without bothering to listen to the lyrics? Aren't those folks zombies, too? And lest we forget where the "Wall of Sound," came from....

Point is- there's good and bad examples in any music genre- be that classic rock, blues, jazz, rap, or anything else. Painting the entire genre as "the death of culture," because you don't like one or a few of its groups verges on ignorance.

All rap music is about pimping ho's (it's spelled ho's, by the way), is the same as saying all classic rock music is about free love and acid. Painting such a broad brush stroke doesn't encompass all the diversity of the music. Truth is there are a lot of rap artists out there making worthwhile contributions to music, whose songs are social commentary not unlike what Dylan an Neil Young were doing decades ago. They take on issues such as race, class, politics, diversity, war, cultural shifts in the urban environment, and other issues. The style is, yes, radically different. But the messages are often pretty similar.

To me, there's plenty of skill involved- not everyone can write songs, even rap songs. When done well it requires a mastery of the English language (moreso than many country singers have ), as well as an intimate understanding of meter and rhythm, and spontaneity on the artist's part, not unlike what you'd find in a more conventional music jam.

I don't listen to much rap, and I probably don't listen to 95% of the rap artists that are out there. But there are a few who do make the genre interesting and worthwhile. It's enough for me to appreciate it as an art form, even if I don't necessarily understand it all.

[eric1978]

It's enough for me to appreciate it as an art form, even if I don't necessarily understand it all.

I agree with that, and that's as far as I'll take it. There are a few rappers that have some brains and write lyrics with socially relevant and important content, no denying that. But the vast majority do not, and the problem with your analogy to Dylan and Neil Young is that they write about what's wrong with society and what we should do to change it, and the rappers, generally, embrace and glorify all the disgusting aspects of their (our) culture. Much of rap and the rap scene is based on anti-intellectualism and caveman behavior. That's a huge difference, and it can't go without mentioning.

You seem to have a pretty solid musical foundation OB, and if I had the energy I'd respond to every one of your points in great detail. I agree with some of what you said, especially about where R&R came from...you're absolutely right about the influences. But I have to say a couple things.

The Beatles didn't get weird because "they knew people would buy millions of their records no matter what," they got "weird" because they started smoking pot and eventually doing acid, and their music evolved accordingly. It just so happened that what flowed out of them was tantamount to genius and they revolutionized music, so people bought it. By the way, Yellow Submarine was written for a cartoon...for kids. It was their weakest album by far for that obvious reason. I hate that song, but it's one of very few that can really be slammed. Nice choice for your purposes, though.

I can take or leave the Kinks...they were mediocre anyway.

Elton John had nothing to do with Tommy when The Who wrote it.

Dark Side of the Moon is one of the greatest albums ever made and still sells hundreds of thousands of copies per year, almost 40 years after its release. How many Nelly albums do you think will be sold in 2050? (I hate when people use "copies sold" to try to convince others of an artist's greatness...hell, how many albums did Britney Spears sell? But the point is that Dark Side of the Moon is still relevant today for a reason.)

People who think Born in the USA is a patriotic tribute to our country, the idiot Hell's Angels at Altamont, the screaming 14 year old girls at the Ed Sullivan show, and the phony hippies that were following the Dead around until the 90s...yep, they're zombies, too. There are plenty of stupid people to go around...it's not limited to rap. But you have to admit, when you're driving around and you hear a rattling trunk you tend to think, "there's a stupid person next to me" before you even look. And chances are, you're right.

[Outside Bend]

But you have to admit, when you're driving around and you hear a rattling trunk you tend to think, "there's a stupid person next to me" before you even look. And chances are, you're right.

True, but I generally think the same thing when I hear Toby Keith at a stoplight

[eric1978]

True, but I generally think the same thing when I hear Toby Keith at a stoplight

That makes two of us my friend.

[flytyer57]

That makes two of us my friend.

That makes three of us.

[Leonard]

Nelly...

you guys are wondering who it is...

think about the Adam Sandlers movies..... The Longest Yard...

the theme song..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us5IPJ-aZvI&feature=related

[Kayser]

Thanks to everyone that beat me to it- saves me a lot of typing. Here's just a few things to add, in no particular order- There have been zombies ever since people started getting famous for music in the modern age. Grateful Dead- not that great. Beatles- revolutionary (see While my Guitar Gently Weeps). Both had zombie fans, but there were some that chose to think for themselves. Drug use continues among musicians to this day (see Red Hot Chili Peppers), and leads to some very weird, and other very awesome music. 14 year-olds are stupid, have been for a long time, and will be for a long time as well. They also have disposable income, making them the primary target to be zombies. Toby Keith isn't that great either, and there are very few popular country songs currently that I would consider "good." George Strait still remains my favorite country artists, but Waylon Jennings holds a special place in my heart for the Dukes of Hazzard theme.

There are a few rappers that have some brains and write lyrics with socially relevant and important content, no denying that. But the vast majority do not, and the problem with your analogy to Dylan and Neil Young is that they write about what's wrong with society and what we should do to change it, and the rappers, generally, embrace and glorify all the disgusting aspects of their (our) culture. Much of rap and the rap scene is based on anti-intellectualism and caveman behavior. That's a huge difference, and it can't go without mentioning.

And just for the record- I don't like Family Guy, Adam Sandler, Will Ferrel, or really any other obnoxious, intentionally stupid "humor." I find it an insult to the intelligence of the average American. Sadly, I'm beginning to think it might be more of an indication...

Rob

[Coldspring]

I'm tired of all the islander style drinking country songs. They all sound the same. Seems like there's more of them than there are Christmas songs!

[Quillback]

I'm old enough to remember watching the Beatles when they appeared on Ed Sullivan, I think I was about 6 or 7 at the time. I was at my grandparents house and I remember them commenting on how long they thought their (the Beatles) hair was.

[strangercreek]

I'm old enough to remember watching the Beatles when they appeared on Ed Sullivan, I think I was about 6 or 7 at the time. I was at my grandparents house and I remember them commenting on how long they thought their (the Beatles) hair was.

I remember seeing Paul Mccartney making a total jackass out of himself by making a stupid comment about Bush when he played at the Whitehouse recently. Who cares who cares about the political aspect of it, talk about no class at all. Never to late to alienate people and make yourself look stupid in the process.