My Trout Management Wish List

[troutfiend1985]

About the browns, I would say that I have caught around 10 total and I think about 5 came on one day a couple of years ago. Never really big as far as size, though I have heard rumors(Ollie)

[hank franklin]

I love the streams, but I don't really care about trout. Just my two cents.

[Guest]

deleted

[drew03cmc]

A 2009 population survey confirmed previous tagging study information which indicated that rainbow trout are rapidly removed by anglers between stockings as only 9 rainbow trout were captured. A few rainbow, however, likely survive as four of these fish were 15-17"; larger than the normal stocking size.

There is the entire quote. And in the very first sentence it states that 9 trout from the 2009 population survey where they surved previously stocked tagged trout, were captured. It can be any clearer than that. It also states, which both of you left out like a FOX News story, that at least 4 of them had a really good growth rates. But still, when were they stocked in comparison to when the survey took place? Was the whole creek shocked? From the Mill dam to the confluence with Shoal?

There are trout in there year round. And they get very smart, very quickly. I will talk to the biologist that covers Capp's and see what the shocking surveys says. It may be a few days though. How many browns have you caught out of Capp's? They are there and there are some monsters too. I haven't caught one(a monster brown) but earlier this year when I was at the biologists office we were talking about Capps and he told me of some of the fish in there and it would make you dribble like a baby!

But at any rate, if you believe there were only 9 trout in the whole creek, then by all means write your letter. And please point that out to them. I would be really interested in the response. But just know what White Ribbon management consist of and that is what it is managed for. But the next time you make a trip to Capps, let me know. I'd love to meet you there.

Chief, we can talk about these monster browns in Capps, along with the big smallmouth I have heard about in the lower end of the creek. Speaking of which, after our float, we need to plan me a trip to Capps to wade the whole creek in a day. We could fish from Shoal up to the Mill Dam or something.

- A 2009 population survey confirmed previous tagging study information

- which indicated that rainbow trout are rapidly removed by anglers between stockings

- as only 9 TAGGED rainbow trout were captured.

- A few rainbow, however, likely survive as four of these fish were 15-17";

- larger than the normal stocking size.

I guess its all how you break it down and what modifies what. Here is how I read the statement.

I don't believe that there are only 9 trout in the whole creek, what I believe is that the study shows that only 9 rainbows were found during this survey. There may be more at any given time, but the wording to me reads in the way I listed above.

1. MDC is aware that rainbow trout are being taken out of the very quickly, and

2. that the survey in 2009 found very few rainbow trout in Capps Creek

I am planning to write MDC for a few reasons; one being to clear up what is going on with this survey, the other to see if they would be open to a C&R zone on Capps and Hickory.

Chief I would love to meet up with you at Capps, but it would have to be this winter. Honestly I never thought that I would have debate with you over this issue of conservation, but I have no hard feelings whatsoever and enjoy your insights . Anyways, one of these days we still have to test out the Missouri Property law of Navigable waters.

Let me just put this out there, I am not trying to accuse anyone of being unethical. I don't have a problem with people who legally keep trout. What I have a problem with is how MDC is managing the white ribbon areas, most specifically Capps and Hickory. I know that MDC manages the white ribbon areas for a reason but I don’t see why a little compromise would hurt anything.

I will write to them sometime in the next couple of weeks and this try to post on here what I get as a response.

Tight Lines

Conservation of an artificial resource is funny to me. I catch and release trout because I can't stand how they taste. I am not against someone taking their 4 daily, as long as they are under the possession limit of 8.

Along the lines of survey numbers, would you guess there are fewer rainbows in Capps than browns? I guess if you read that entire Capps Prospect, you would have seen that 27% of brown trout captured are over 18" long. In theory, that would mean that for every 100 you catch, you get 27 over 18" long. That is a load of crap and you and I both know it. These surveys are not wholly encompassing as they did not shock the entire stream. The stretch they shocked (most likely at the lower access) might be set up better for brown trout than rainbows.

[eric1978]

You guys are arguing semantics about the Capps Creek study...it doesn't matter at all, because generally, Blue Ribbon regs are better for the angler, and White Ribbon regs are better for the grocery store's sales of lemon and butter. If they turned Capps into a Blue Ribbon and went from six stockings a year down to one or two, it would fish better and there would be better fish at a fraction of the cost. But we all know how many families would starve to death then, so forget that.

If I had my way, all flowing streams would be managed as Blue or Red Ribbons except for the parks. They could shut down the urban programs, too, as far as I'm concerned, even though I do enjoy getting my fix at Busch in the winter. With all the talk about returning to fiscal responsibility, everyone should agree with that, right? After all, the MO trout programs should be about fishing, not feeding people, and that's what the White Ribbons and urban programs are...an all-you-can-eat buffet. But I'm notoriously unsympathetic to meat anglers, and y'all know that, so whatever. Maybe they could hire someone to pick up the hoosiers' trash if they weren't spending so much on cranking out tons and tons of biomass.

And I'll add this...If I see tighter regulations implemented for trout before smallmouth, I'm gonna throw a conniption fit.

[troutfiend1985]

Conservation of an artificial resource is funny to me. I catch and release trout because I can't stand how they taste. I am not against someone taking their 4 daily, as long as they are under the possession limit of 8.

Along the lines of survey numbers, would you guess there are fewer rainbows in Capps than browns? I guess if you read that entire Capps Prospect, you would have seen that 27% of brown trout captured are over 18" long. In theory, that would mean that for every 100 you catch, you get 27 over 18" long. That is a load of crap and you and I both know it. These surveys are not wholly encompassing as they did not shock the entire stream. The stretch they shocked (most likely at the lower access) might be set up better for brown trout than rainbows.

First off, the tagged part of my post wasn't there. So however it got there is inaccurate, that wording was not the MDC's wording on their website and it is irresponsible to take my words out of context. That is a completely inaccurate statement, and really ticks me off that someone would put their words in my post, quote it as if I wrote it and respond to it. To put it in bold and then underline it only adds to my frustration with that post. Now that I have that off of my chest. . .

What other information can you go off of? I don't know what other source you can go to as I would consider MDC to the authority on their streams. Yes, the statistics have room for error, as all statistics do. But I'm taking those statistics with my experiences as a whole in regards to white ribbon fisheries. White Ribbons are either hit or miss, and I think, along with other opinions that I have seen on this board from previous topics, the reason for the fluctuation in the success of these fisheries is due to the regulations. Do I think Capps has more browns that rainbows, yes at least in a consistent manner. There might be more rainbows when the truck drops off the fish, but in a few weeks the numbers will change.

I just don't get some of these opinions coming on here. Look, I like the idea of allowing people to catch and keep fish, no problem with that. But, what is the point of allowing a fishery to become basically wiped out? I haven't done shocking surveys, and as far as I know no one else on here has conducted there own shocking surveys of Capps, but MDC has. Question the statistics all you want, but you are arguing then with the people who manage these streams and know a heck of a lot more about Capps than either you or I do.

[joeD]

Of course there should be C & R fly-fishing only sections in trout streams and parks. Because, because,...because we're FLY-FISHERMEN, and we deserve it and we know what's RIGHT! All other non-FF miscreants and ne'er-do-wells should stick to their own section, so as not to befoul OUR area.

[troutfiend1985]

Of course there should be C & R fly-fishing only sections in trout streams and parks. Because, because,...because we're FLY-FISHERMEN, and we deserve it and we know what's RIGHT! All other non-FF miscreants and ne'er-do-wells should stick to their own section, so as not to befoul OUR area.

Joe, let me start off by saying: "Schwing and a miss." This isn't an entitlement theory, or that Fly Fisherman are superior to other forms of fishing. If you are that insecure about your angling method of choice, then I am sorry. All I am proposing is a simple change that could allow a better chance of angling. That’s it, you want to make it flies and artificial only, I’m down for that too, whatever it takes to improve angling qualities in these streams. I just do not buy the idea that White Ribbon areas are managed with the purpose to feed families, they are there for fishing and I agree with Eric on that point.

Man, I would have never thought that an idea as simple as a C&R zone would stir the pot so much. I would think that increasing the amount of quality angling water would be a good thing, leave the majority of the water as a white ribbon area and a small section as C&R. Who knows, some of these streams could have a little trophy section. What is wrong with that?

[Chief Grey Bear]

Chief I would love to meet up with you at Capps, but it would have to be this winter. Honestly I never thought that I would have debate with you over this issue of conservation, but I have no hard feelings whatsoever and enjoy your insights . Anyways, one of these days we still have to test out the Missouri Property law of Navigable waters.

Hey winter time is the only time I fish it myself. I don't mess with it in the warm months. Too much floating to do!!!! I wouldn't call this a debate so much as I would a conversation. And I would love to continue it in person on the banks of Capps. But I would have to stop short of calling it a "conservation" dialog. And you know me, I am always up for testing the tresspassing law! You're a lawyer right?????

[ness]

Gotta agree with Eric, as much as it pains me , this survey debate is mostly semantics. Bottom line is most of the stocked trout either get caught, meet some other fate (or learn to avoid the surveyors somehow). A few survive, and they grow bigger over time. Just like I woulda thought.

The White Ribbon areas serve a need, and while it may not be an ideal management strategy, there are some positives. As mentioned before, they give the bait fisherman/trout eater a place to go. And that increases the base of outdoorsmen buying licenses, keeps our outdoor traditions alive, and makes for a more conservation-minded population.

If you don't like them, there are lotsa other places to go.