Questionable Activity

[Njardar]

After reading all the posts I'm confused as to why some people are upset. If the law says fly fishing and snagging are both legal in this part of the river then it is up to each of us to get along. It's like driving through the Wally-World parking lot. There are courteous drivers and anal sphincter muscle drivers (ASMD). The actions of the ASMD will only affect us if we choose to let them. How others see us does not matter, but how we see ourselves… that is important. We can chose to be courteous, even when others are not, and at the end of the day we are the only ones who will need to deal with the memories of our actions. My opinion, my two cents and my Nomex suit.

- Charlie

[ozark trout fisher]

Can a trout tell the difference between a rock and...say a....walnut?.....hedge apple?...or any number of other objects that naturally fall into the water during the day. But why would they be more afraid of the occasional rock and not a steady stream of waders? Do you honestly think that they don't know you are there??? Every person/animal/bird/fish/what have you has a comfort zone. Cross it and you are finished.

Good try Chief, but I happen to know that repeatedly throwing rocks does indeed scare fish, and usually for quite a while. Are you really even disputing that? Is the sky blue on a sunny day? I can also attest to the fact that there is a slight difference in degree between an occasional walnut falling in the water and someone throwing a bunch of big rocks.

"Every person/animal/bird/fish/what have you has a comfort zone. Cross it and you are finished."

Right. And big rocks being thrown in the water crosses that comfort line for every fish species I know of other than than a mentally deficient bluegill. On the other hand, a fish just seeing you doesn't necessarily kill your chances.

And in any case, do you really think it's sporting to herd fish with thrown rocks? That seems kind fishy (pun intended) in it's own right, even if it didn't affect someones fishing. I'd say that if you having to herd the fish it gets kind of pathetic.

[FishinCricket]

I'd say that if you're having to herd the fish it gets kind of pathetic..

You try gettin them darn suckers to bite! lol

[jjtroutbum]

After reading all the posts I'm confused as to why some people are upset. If the law says fly fishing and snagging are both legal in this part of the river then it is up to each of us to get along. It's like driving through the Wally-World parking lot. There are courteous drivers and anal sphincter muscle drivers (ASMD). The actions of the ASMD will only affect us if we choose to let them. How others see us does not matter, but how we see ourselves… that is important. We can chose to be courteous, even when others are not, and at the end of the day we are the only ones who will need to deal with the memories of our actions. My opinion, my two cents and my Nomex suit.

- Charlie

[Al Agnew]

This is certainly interesting. If I am understanding this correcetly, sucker grabbers are to give way to trout fishermen? It is ok for trout fishermen to "set up on every decent pool"? But not sucker grabbers? It is ok for trout fisherment to work their way through a pool that a grabber was set up because it "may" help the grabber? But what if it doesn't? What if it actually scatters the suckers and they abandon that pool?

I guess the highlited statement in your post would depend on which type of fishing you were doing. I wouldn't think the grabbers would agree. When did we develope this whole food pyramid of sorts? And who put the trout fishermen on top? I like trout fishing as much as anyone, but I certainly would never say that I have rights to trout fish over any other form or type of fishing.

Now with that being said, if you were on the pool first, they yes, then you should be extended the courtesy of having that pool to your style of fishing, if not just have the pool to yourself. I would would let you have it to yourself personally. I don't like to crowd and I don't like to be crowded. Where has common courtesy gone?

Nope, that's not what I meant. I don't have a problem with sucker grabbing. I've done it both as a kid and as an adult and it's fun and actually a pretty sporting method of fishing. It ain't easy.

What I was talking about was WHETHER one use of the resource negatively impacts other resource users, while the other resource users do not impact each other or the first user to anything like the same degree. One group of grabbers monopolizing one pool, or even going up and down the river and checking out various pools, is not having that much of an impact on other users, in this case trout anglers. But if there were an equal number of grabbers and trout fishermen and all the grabbers were setting up on every pool and throwing rocks in the water, etc., you COULD make an argument that they were keeping the trout anglers from enjoying their sport, while the trout anglers, in the normal course of fishing, wouldn't be doing much if anything to keep the sucker grabbers from enjoying THEIR sport.

My point again is that there are always going to be conflicts among various users. But sometimes one group of users, in the normal course of enjoying their sport, basically screws things up for everybody else, while everybody else, in the normal course of enjoying their sport, do nothing to screw up things for the first user. Kinda like if you're out in the wild bowhunting for deer, and a bunch of yahoos on ATVs decide to use your hunting grounds for a racetrack. You're not doing a darned thing to mess up their fun, but they are surely messing up yours.

That's obviously not the case in this sucker grabbing situation. But as the woods and waters get more and more crowded, you're going to have more and more conflicts, and some of them WILL be where the normal activities of one user group screws things up for everybody else. And the only way, then, to fix it is to divvy up the resources so that some places are off limits to the user groups who would have the most impact upon others.

[Gene K]

Me thinks there has been a lot of baiting in this thread.

Suckers!

[joeD]

I honestly think a college or university Econ or PoliSci or Ethics or Government course could do a case study on the Current River (to name one). It is the perfect example of how a scarce resource that is in high demand by different parties is utilized and the thought processes behind the decisions that govern that resource. Politics, special interest groups, rich people, not so rich people, big city and small town people, scientists, government workers, fishermen of all kinds. It's all here. Democracy in action.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Good try Chief, but I happen to know that repeatedly throwing rocks does indeed scare fish, and usually for quite a while. Are you really even disputing that? Is the sky blue on a sunny day? I can also attest to the fact that there is a slight difference in degree between an occasional walnut falling in the water and someone throwing a bunch of big rocks.

"Every person/animal/bird/fish/what have you has a comfort zone. Cross it and you are finished."

Right. And big rocks being thrown in the water crosses that comfort line for every fish species I know of other than than a mentally deficient bluegill. On the other hand, a fish just seeing you doesn't necessarily kill your chances.

And in any case, do you really think it's sporting to herd fish with thrown rocks? That seems kind fishy (pun intended) in it's own right, even if it didn't affect someones fishing. I'd say that if you having to herd the fish it gets kind of pathetic.

It is blantantly obvious you have never been grabbing. And now you attact those that enjoy and keep the tradtion of sucker grabbing by calling them pathetic?? Who put you at the top of the fishing pyramid?

That's obviously not the case in this sucker grabbing situation. But as the woods and waters get more and more crowded, you're going to have more and more conflicts, and some of them WILL be where the normal activities of one user group screws things up for everybody else. And the only way, then, to fix it is to divvy up the resources so that some places are off limits to the user groups who would have the most impact upon others.

I hope it never comes to this. But then again, since trout are not native, this may not go the way you think it might.

[ozark trout fisher]

It is blantantly obvious you have never been grabbing. And now you attact those that enjoy and keep the tradtion of sucker grabbing by calling them pathetic?? Who put you at the top of the fishing pyramid?

I didn't say they were pathetic. I just said it's pathetic if you're having to physically herd the fish with rocks, in just the same way that it's pathetic for a fly fisherman on one of the tailwaters to resort to the San Juan Shuffle so they can catch trout right off their feet. If you have to resort to certain things in fishing, then I'd say it's better to get skunked. I want to make it abundantly clear that I did not call grabbers in general "pathetic." The fact that you said I did proves that you are willing to twist the words of others to make an argument.

Snagging actually sounds difficult, and even sporting in it's own right. But that changes if they are having to throw rocks to herd fish in order to make it easier.

[Gavin]

I'm not concerned.... the spots were folks grab usually arent the best trout habitat (frog water). I've been on many fall trips where I've seen folks snagging and it hasnt interfered with my fishing at all. Snaggers dont move around much...they just need one or two good holes with some suckers in it. Most flyfishers seem to want the whole darn river.