Felt Soles For Your Soul

[troutfiend1985]

In their experiments felt soled boots that were examined 5 hours after use in infested waters contained nearly 3,000 times more live didymo cells than rubber soles (11,000 on felt vs. 3.9 on rubber). At 36 hours, a second careful cleaning yielded significant numbers of live cells from the felt soles and no live or dead cells from the rubber soles (290 on felt vs. 0 on rubber).

So lets do a little analysis here, shall we? For sanity's sake, lets just accept blindly that this statement is conducted without monetary donations from either Simms or Orvis. First we can see that Didymo exists in both rubber soled wading boots and felt soles. After a period of 36 hours, rubber has none and felt has very little didymo left in it at all. From this, we can see that the amount of time from contact with the water is proportional to the amount of live didymo on the felt soled boot. However not at one point in this website did I find any statistical analysis of the amount of didymo spread from those boots to uncontaminated water. I would expect to see something on this analysis if this organization was conducting a full research project. All it would take is a fish take and some patience. Nowhere did I find any evidence at all suggesting the necessary amount of didymo to infect another water, and it seems that the organization was solely focused on showing the amount of live didymo on felt. And I didn’t see the variables of ph level and the affects on water temperature or flooding.

This organization also mentioned these methods for cleaning:

Felt soles present a greater risk of transfer than the other materials tested.

• Soaking in a disinfectant solution is far more effective than spraying (spraying was deemed to be totally ineffective)

• Even after 20 minutes of soaking, the disinfectant does not fully penetrate all areas of the felt sole

• Complete drying of felt soles is very difficult – soles can remain damp for weeks

• Heating the boots to 45°C (113°F) for at least 20 minutes will disinfect the soles

I take special note of "Even after 20 minutes of soaking, the disinfectant does not fully penetrate all areas of the felt sole" My question would then be, is there a significant amount of live didymo present in the deep areas of the felt? And if so, would this live didymo be able to remain alive while escaping this deep area felt and do so proficiently enough to contaminate a watershed?

These are the types of questions I have. From this, I will admit that it seems didymo could be transferred after coming out of the water and immediately(within 5 hours) going into another watershed. However, what about shoe laces, the uppers of wading boots and waders themselves? Before putting a ban on felt soles, these questions need to be answered.

Don't take my word, look to this website http://www.stopans.org/Science_of_felt.php

[troutfiend1985]

About dogma's. Perhaps this isn’t really a dogma, but rather that I see a some proponents of rubber soles here using a dog in the manger philosophy. “I have switched to rubber soles, felt provides no use to me, so therefore you cannot use felt either. It is my belief that these felt soles are the main cause of didymo. I believe this even though the statistical analysis does not prove felt soles to cause the spread of didymo by a preponderance of the evidence. But, I am sure that these organizations do not a financial motivation in making these determinations and thus I will accept them as true. Shame on others for not accepting my, and my peers, established opinion(or dogma if you will).”

I’m hearing a lot of this, and all I want is some proof that felt soles cause, not harbor but cause the spread of didymo. A quote from a study along with is website address would really be convincing.

[flytyer57]

About dogma's. Perhaps this isn’t really a dogma, but rather that I see a some proponents of rubber soles here using a dog in the manger philosophy. “I have switched to rubber soles, felt provides no use to me, so therefore you cannot use felt either. It is my belief that these felt soles are the main cause of didymo. I believe this even though the statistical analysis does not prove felt soles to cause the spread of didymo by a preponderance of the evidence. But, I am sure that these organizations do not a financial motivation in making these determinations and thus I will accept them as true. Shame on others for not accepting my, and my peers, established opinion(or dogma if you will).”

I’m hearing a lot of this, and all I want is some proof that felt soles cause, not harbor but cause the spread of didymo. A quote from a study along with is website address would really be convincing.

As somebody else said earlier, I give up. There is no point in trying to convince a blind man that he can see.

[troutfiend1985]

As somebody else said earlier, I give up. There is no point in trying to convince a blind man that he can see.

Real nice. Taking the high road I see? Instead of commenting on my first post, you'd rather take the easy way out and post a comment that has no substance. Way to counter a post there flytyer, I admire you analysis.

[Gavin]

Dunno....seems to me that Didymo & other invasives will spread regardless of what we do...I'm all in favor of cleaning your stuff, but there are just too many vectors involved to be certain it wont spread felt, no felt, or not. If there is good habitat for it, it will find a way...I'll give up felt if I must, but I've yet to see a good alternative. My main concern is fishers coming back from the White, Norfork, & Taney and fishing in Missouri...I dont fish those didy infested tailwaters...but those who do need to take precautions, might work, but its mostly a feel goodism, IMO.

[eric1978]

Real nice. Taking the high road I see? Instead of commenting on my first post, you'd rather take the easy way out and post a comment that has no substance. Way to counter a post there flytyer, I admire you analysis.

http://stopans.org/P...dgeofDidymo.pdf

Go to page 19.

You can choose to believe it or not. They also mention boot tops, neoprenes, and other fishing equipment as viable transportation for didymo. For the record, I wear felt soles. But I wouldn't if I fished in infected waters, or I'd have a designated, separate pair for them. The transmission of didymo via felt soles worn by anglers has been established with scientific evidence...the question is whether or not we:

a. decide we know more than the scientists and ignore the evidence, and

b. should all be personally responsible for preventing the spread of didymo, or if a government entity should step in and do something about it, since every time it is left up to humans to do the right thing on their own, they invariably don't.

[EddieRay]

Question: Aside from the presence of noxious didymo blooms, what do New Zealand, Chile, the Bow River of Alberta, South Dakota's Rapid Creek, Tennessee's South Holston and Cumberland tailwaters, Virginia's Pound River, the Connecticut River of the northeast US, and several Catskill mountain streams all have in common?

Hint:

Chile.

New Zealand.

Bow River, AB.

Vancouver Island, BC.

Rapid Creek, SD.

Cumberland River.

Jackson River, VA.

Connecticut River.

Battenkill River.

Catskill.

Notice a pattern?

I'm not sure what the big mystery is- people are pretty good at moving critters around, knowingly or unknowingly. Eurasian milfoil, zebra mussels, rusty crayfish, goldfish, rudd, emerald shiners, brook trout, pike, walleye, spiny waterfleas, yellow perch, New Zealand mudsnails, common carp, tiger salamanders, bullfrogs, green frogs, and many other species have been introduced by anglers at one point or another, intentionally or accidentally. That folks could be inadvertently transporting snails, didymo, whirling disease, and other small organisms via felt soles shouldn't be that revelatory.

The spread of didymo is well correlated with the advent of felt soles, as well as anglers taking more destination trips to places around the world. Anglers transport a significant amount of sediment between streams via felt soled boots. There's a significant correlation between streams with didymo and streams with high angling pressure. There are documented cases where didymo occurs downstream of a public fishing access, but not upstream. There are documented cases of didymo being absent on streams where angling is banned, while infesting nearby streams where angling is allowed. Anglers move sediment between streams via felt soled wading boots. Other aquatic invasives like whirling disease and New Zealand mudsnails have been documented in felt soled wading boots. Studies have shown felt soles trap far more whirling disease spores than rubber soles. Studies have shown felt soles trap far more live didymo cells than rubber soles, even after repeated thorough cleanings. You can find a lot of the information on google, and links to many of the studies at www.stopans.org.

When it's mineral extractors, or loggers, or Big Oil, or the Government, or Purdue, or Tyson, or otters, or giggers, or aquaculturists, or farmers, or ranchers, or CAFO's, or sewage treatment plants, or Monsanto, or any other agent causing environmental harm, sportsmen jump all over it. But when the evidence indicates that perhaps our activities too have environmental consequences, we seem to want to ignore or deny it.

In this instance it doesn't seem to me that policymakers are pulling facts out of the air, rather they're using the scientific research which has been done to come to a rational conclusion. Felt soles are a major pathway for invasive species like didymo and whirling disease, and reducing the prevalence of felt soles reduces the likelihood of those organisms spreading. That can be accomplished either voluntarily or through bans, I don't particularly care.

Perhaps it's not a matter of a lack of research, but that the research doesn't agree with the dogma of some angling demographics...

Thanks. I mentioned that there was research and provided a "stopans" link on page two of this thread. See below. We can all agree to disagree, but there are factual data on which to base our opinions. Why not use it?

There are studies. Whether one chooses to believe them or not, or question the validity of the study methodology, is up for debate. The attached article quotes one of the original didymo studies and a more recent one. The study links are highlighted in the article.

http://www.stopans.o...nce_of_felt.php

[Wheatenheimer]

Ok, after reading all of this, Chief, I feel like I owe you a formal apology. I think I mentioned that you have lost your mind on this, but I am now convinced that felt is indeed bad. If there is a slim chance that felt can spread and introduce invasives to my favorite streams, well that is a chance I am not willing to take.

I got up this morning and built a fire and threw my beloved felt sole sandals into the fire.

No more felt for me, boys.

For those of you that insist on continuing to wear felt, shame on you. You are just being selfish. Focus on improving your wading skills and buy a wading staff!

[strangercreek]

yawn

[Danoinark]

yawn

Yep, this one's about run its course.