Divers Take Note

[podum]

I'd encourage you to read "Physics for Future Presidents"

Even a liberal physicist from Cal Berkeley doesn't buy that argument.

[flytyer57]

There is a significant faith component in any man made warming argument.

Such as ignoring the problem and have faith it will go away?

[Justin Spencer]

My point is tha the "real science" is a myth, at least right now.

I spent 4 years undergrad and 2 years in graduate school studying this mythical science (sure wish you would have told me this before I wasted my time in college). I graduated with an Environmental management degree so I think I have studied the REAL science more than most people. There are people much smarter than us with expertise in this area that have proven time and time again we are a component in global warming. What I learned about over a decade ago predicted changes that have come about much quicker than we had predicted. I think it is extremely naive to think humans have not sped up this process (which could be considered natural). If there is even a slight chance that we are the ones causing this warming shouldn't we take action to try and slow the process? As a society we spend so much time trying to make sure something is 100% fact before we act on it that nothing ever gets done!

Al (Agnew not Gore)summed it up very well, thank you for you time. Unfortunately I think he is right that we won't be able to do enough to fix things. This is both sad and infuriating to some people and I think that is what makes many environmentalists come off as crazy. While I don't agree with everything Al Gore has done or said he has tried to use his influence to bring an awareness to the environmental problems we are facing. Sadly because of his political views this has further split the country on an issue that should have nothing to do with party affiliation.

It will all come down to what hits us in the pocketbook that forces us to change. To me that is the only positive when I see gasoline prices go up, unfortunately coal is still cheap and easy to get so until this starts to run out we will probably continue to see big changes is our climate and weather patterns.

[denjac]

George Carlin said it best . The human race better pack their bags cause we are leaving !

[podum]

J.S.'s last post is why it's so frustrating to talk about this issue. I have also spent significant time studying the issue - the writings and theories of both camps. I believe there is warming, I believe CO2 is a greenhouse gas, I even believe the man is causing a very small part of the warming. I don't believe that man is the driving cause of warming. Your quote "What I learned about over a decade ago predicted changes that have come about much quicker than we had predicted." doesn't support a man-made warming argument. The fact that there is warming and a set of predictions one can make about the warming as it continues doesn't say anything about the cause of the warming.

When you say "I think I have studied the REAL science more than most people" you expose yourself as a believer not a scientist. When you imply that a thoughtful dissenter is wrong because you have a monopoly on the truth in the form of the "REAL science", you are no longer having a discussion about the science. That argument would get you an "F" in any high school debate class. Man-made warming proponents will have a hard time convincing others that they are right when they paint their opponents as blind, fools and idiots instead of having a thoughtful debate. I am out after this post. Thanks for listening.

[Justin Spencer]

Don't know what type of education you have podum, but I think you might be offended if someone dismissed your education as being based on faith not fact. Seems like every piece of scientific evidence you don't agree with is dismissed and those you agree with are embraced, I guess that makes you feel better about yourself and society and I can't argue with that. Don't worry be happy.

Glad you are out! And thanks for your opinions.

Back to the topic. If you want to vacation on the reefs please do so soon as they may not be there forever.

[FishinCricket]

and . . . Cricket, I want to fish the Niangua with you, post haste

I'm not sure if you and I agree on the topic at hand, but that sure shouldn't stop us from hittin the river together! I'm free most Wednesdays. How about tomorrow?

[podum]

I didn't expect that you did. A disagreement doesn't make us enemies. I've always appreciated your posts on the Niangua forum and have fished there a lot myself. Thanks for the tomorrow offer, but I'm tied up with work and the holidays. I'll hit you up in January with a post over there.

[FishinCricket]

I didn't expect that you did. A disagreement doesn't make us enemies. I've always appreciated your posts on the Niangua forum and have fished there a lot myself. Thanks for the tomorrow offer, but I'm tied up with work and the holidays. I'll hit you up in January with a post over there.

I'll look forward to it..

[Outside Bend]

In Boy Scouts I was able to do some snorkeling on a few reefs in the Keys- it's unreal, I wish everyone could have that experience. It's pretty humbling jumping in and realizing you're surrounded by thousands of barracuda, from twelve to more than sixty inches in length. I was able to see snook, parrotfish, permit, sharks, rays, swim through bait balls 30 feet in diameter, an incredible experience. I also saw the bad stuff- acres of dead, bleached coral, devoid of most life aside from a few rays, sometimes right next to seemingly healthy corals. The contrast was incredibly stark.

I've also spent a lot of time in the Rocky Mountains, backpacking and fishing in some pretty remote places. Gorgeous country, unbelievable fishing, and I've been able to see and do things some folks never get the chance to. But you look around- at thousands of acres of dead and dying trees, killed by a native insect which couldn't tolerate high altitude cold, but which has been able to access these forests due to recent climate shifts, and you begin to wonder. You listen to pikas- guinea pig sized critters that live on rocky talus slopes at high altitude- animals which can't survive above about 70 degrees, and which have been disappearing throughout the west, and it makes you think.

It's easy to claim nothing's going on when you haven't witnessed it firsthand. I don't pretend to have the answers, but I've seen enough, in enough ecosystems, to think something's happening. I think most folks, sportsmen and conservationists in particular, want to leave this earth a better place than they found it for their children- at this point I'm not sure that'll happen for me.