Global Warming Poll

[gotmuddy]

Okay, Muddy, I'll play.

If you think 1.5 degrees is insignificant, bear in mind that a drop of 5 degrees global average from where we are right now would put us in a full blown ice age...

3.5 degrees from where we were at the beginning of the graph would put us in the deep freeze.

Still think 1.5 degrees is insignificant? We're not talking about the temp outside your door tomorrow, we're talking global average. Global average temperatures just don't change that much. Worst case scenarios under the global warming regime say that we could see 6 degrees or more rise by the end of this century...a few of them say it could be as much as 10 degrees.

As for the imperfect correlation between CO2 emissions and global temps, you're making the same mistake that people make when they say that the planet can't be warming because it's cold outside today. There are always short term factors that affect temps year to year or day to day. A major volcanic eruption can cool global temps for up to three or four years, for instance. If CO2 was the ONLY factor affecting global temps, you'd expect to see perfect correlation, but nobody is saying that. But the thing to look at is the trend. You can see that warming didn't really get started in earnest until the 1980s. Before then the rise, while generally following rise in CO2 emissions, was not very significant. But CO2 levels started rising really seriously in the early 1960s. Temps stayed pretty steady until the late 70s. Since then, both have been rising in pretty close correlation. You have to realize that effects from greenhouse gases may not happen instantaneously. Maybe it took a few years for the emissions to build up to a threshold where there was enough carbon in the atmosphere to start making a big difference. But since then, it's been making that difference. The thing to look at is that, even when some other factor causes temps to drop for a year or three, whether it be Mount Pinatubo's eruption or El Nino/La Nina cycles, it doesn't drop as far as it did before and when it recovers it goes much higher than it did before. The first scientific papers warning of global warming came out in the 1980s. Since then, it's that near perfect correlation shown on the graph that has done more than anything else to convince climate scientists that they are on the right track.

This is the post I have been waiting for. This is by far the best post in the thread. If this is the case(which seems to be true after reading this post), what do we do? How do we limit our economy without throwing us back into the dark ages??

BTW, no one except spiderman posted about their vehicles, should I make a spinoff thread?

[eric1978]

BTW, no one except spiderman posted about their vehicles, should I make a spinoff thread?

I drive a 1/2 ton truck, but my business requires that I pull a trailer every day, so it's justified. My wife drives a 4 cylinder Saturn. We use the CF light bulbs and I hate them. We recycle everything we can. I feed stale bread to the birds. I don't let the water run if I'm not using it. We open the shades in the winter and close them in the summer.

But as Al said, none of that means very much until all the major industrial countries' governments, including our own, invest in alternative energy technology so we can then regulate industry in order to drastically reduce CO2 emissions and other pollution. The U.S. could lead the way in green energy and get our economy moving again, and be a model for the future for other burgeoning and booming nations like India and China.

Who's standing in the way? It's not the liberal douchebags, as you call them.

[Tim Smith]

How do we limit our economy without throwing us back into the dark ages??

The goal isn't to limit the economy. The goal is to detach it from carbon-based fuels in a sustainable way.

If everything we do depends on carbon then yes, the economy will slow down.

But if we can end the nonsense debates (and maybe we've reached that point in this thread?), admit there is a problem, and then start acting together to solve this over the next several years and decades, it can be done. Personally the only way I see that this can be done is if most people feel they can make money off the change or at least not loose much. Some people are going to have to find different ways to make money than they do right now.

As for the car thing, mine makes 32 MPG on the highway and most days I telecommute instead of driving it. When I'm in Belize, I have a 14$ utility bill and the 100cc bike I ride there can get almost 100 MPG on a good day. I also have a hobby of planting trees...and the projects I've run are past 22,000 since 2007.

Unfortunately I spend way too much time in planes and driving cross country. I'm doing my best to fix that.

Do what you can do, right?

[Wayne SW/MO]

By the way, a 1.5 degree temperature shift in 150 years is quite significant. Just because gotmuddy believes whatever he chooses, doesn't mean the rest of us have the luxury of denying reality

That's right Eric, but 150 years a go an ice age was ending.

I'm not against caution, but we haven't seen intelligent alternatives yet. The light bulbs mentioned, all made in China. Our industrial sector wasn't even given a chance. Alternative energy, all aimed at new ones, while viable ones with a large amount of R & D already paid for are thrown aside.

When realistic answers are put forth that don't reward political allies I'll sign on to doing what we can, as long as it's not to allegedly stop Global Warming. Nothing is going to stop it except Mother Earth, but we can help lessen our impact.

When our "representatives" give themselves one standard of living and feel good about subjecting the rest to a different living standard, its insane to think they will offer up realistic answers that soften the impact on the electorate.

[denjac]

The thing that kills me is the money part of it. The pay as you play plan, Carbon credits. Its ok to add to the problem if you buy your carbon credits. I expect very soon The UN will say to a poor little country , here you guys dont make anything and so we are going to give you 100 gazzilion carbon credits. Feel free to sell them to anybody you want . A shift in economic power ? You bet .

[Fly_Guy]

Michael Crighton's "State of Fear" is both a good read, and very instructive. Personally, I'm more worried about direct pollution and toxicity of our cars and lifestyles than us somehow baking the planet. If we got to an increase of 5 degrees by our own doing, our planet would be so shot by the direct toxic effects of what we would have to do to reach that point that it wouldn't matter anyway.

I'll believe Al Gore when we stops cherry picking his science to suit his political and monatary agenda. I'll believe Rush when he does the same. Both sides have political agendas.

[gotmuddy]

The thing that kills me is the money part of it. The pay as you play plan, Carbon credits. Its ok to add to the problem if you buy your carbon credits. I expect very soon The UN will say to a poor little country , here you guys dont make anything and so we are going to give you 100 gazzilion carbon credits. Feel free to sell them to anybody you want . A shift in economic power ? You bet .

Let's pray we never lay down totally for the UN

[Outside Bend]

Guys, we get that you really, really don't like Al Gore.

It's irrelevant.

[Fly_Guy]

Guys, we get that you really, really don't like Al Gore.

You're adults, and should know by now that not liking someone doesn't invalidate their position.

If they have a stake in it, they are going to cherry pick they data that supports their claim. How come Al Gore has never posted the U.S. warming data. Because there is no noticible warming trend in the U.S. How come he didn't include a side-by-side graph of Albany and New York City (Albany is cooling, and NYC is warming) in his little slide show that won him a Nobel Peace Prize? Not liking someone doesn't invalidate their position, but when they stand to make millions off of manufactured hysteria, I tend to be critical.

[FishinCricket]

Guys, we get that you really, really don't like Al Gore.

You're adults, and should know by now that not liking someone doesn't invalidate their position.

Uh-huh, Uh-huh, UH-HUH!!!!!!