Should They Stock Browns On The Eleven Point?

[Wayne SW/MO]

I would question their effect on the natural spawn, they are devout carnivores.

[Al Agnew]

It ought to be a scientific decision, based upon several factors. Biggest factor is, how WOULD they affect the wild rainbows? How many of the rainbows living in the Eleven Point are stream born fish? How much would the browns prey upon young wild rainbows, and how much would that affect the population of adult wild rainbows?

Second factor, how much would they affect native species? Not only fish but hellbenders?

North Fork has wild rainbows and browns, and they seem to do okay together. Some streams have both browns and rainbows along with good populations of native fish. Those two facts would seem to indicate that the browns wouldn't have a major impact on other fish.

Since browns accomplish little natural reproduction on any Ozark stream that I'm aware of, it would seem that it could be done on an experimental basis. Stock some browns for a few years, watch and study populations of the other species, and if it looks like they are having a significant negative impact, stop stocking them and in a few years they'd be mostly gone.

[Chief Grey Bear]

It ought to be a scientific decision, based upon several factors. Biggest factor is, how WOULD they affect the wild rainbows? How many of the rainbows living in the Eleven Point are stream born fish? How much would the browns prey upon young wild rainbows, and how much would that affect the population of adult wild rainbows?

Second factor, how much would they affect native species? Not only fish but hellbenders?

I have to disagree a little. I think the biggest factor should how they would impact the Hellbenders and the other native species. To hell with the non-native rainbows.

Really though, haven't we changed enough???? Can't we just leave things alone for a change????

[ColdWaterFshr]

I think the biggest factor should how they would impact the Hellbenders and the other native species. To hell with the non-native rainbows.

North Fork (of the White) has Hellbenders . . . and browns. . . and non-native, reproducing rainbow trout. They all seem to be doing fine except hellbenders are in decline in ALL the Ozark waterways including those like the Jacks Fork which don't have any trout. I don't think its the trout that are the HB's problem. My guess is water quality, but what do I know.

Several years ago, the multi-year experiment with wild trout only in the upper end of the 11 point (Greer to Turners) didn't turn out so well. Fishing was lousy for several years. I remember it well. Now it fishes better, but not without repeated stockings. My opinion, but I think that river could support a once a year brown trout stocking without any detriment to anything. As Al said, let the science and biologists determine what it can hold. My gut says the browns, bows, wild bows, and hellbenders would all get along famously and it could turn in to a hog farm of big brown water. But not without some help from getting rid of the motorized watercraft upstream of Turners. That would basically end gigging in that stretch, but it needs to happen. Locals won't like it, but there is a whole lot of 11 point to go around.

[Brian Sloss]

Last Oct/Nov's flood did produce a pretty good spawn of wild trout. We have been catching more par marked 6 inch trout lately than we have in quite some time, particularly near where we witnessed a lot of spawning a year ago in Nov. after the floods. That said, these are not consistent results from year to year. Particularly, low water years tend to have sub par hatches of baby bows.

The proposals for brown trout stockings as I understood them, would not increase the number of trout stocked in total. They would just replace a portion of the rainbows stocked with browns. I think about 20% brown-80% bow. It is fun to talk about, but the forest service is not going to bite on the brown trout idea unless the hellbenders make a huge comeback, even though the problems with them appear to be water quality and not trout predation. Note hellbenders have the same problems in non-trout rivers and lived for around an hundred years with trout in Mo waters with no adverse effects.

That said, I would love to have browns, but I am also very happy with what we have here and will always support improving what we have within the parameters that the forest service decides is best.

[Chief Grey Bear]

North Fork (of the White) has Hellbenders . . . and browns. . . and non-native, reproducing rainbow trout. They all seem to be doing fine except hellbenders are in decline in ALL the Ozark waterways including those like the Jacks Fork which don't have any trout. I don't think its the trout that are the HB's problem. My guess is water quality, but what do I know.

My point was don't put the rainbows a head of the native species when determining what other non-native species you want to put in any given water way. But thanks for the mini science we already knew.

[ColdWaterFshr]

My point was don't put the rainbows a head of the native species when determining what other non-native species you want to put in any given water way. But thanks for the mini science we already knew.

You're welcome! Got more of it, but I need everyone to take careful notes.

What else did we already know? Oh yeah, Chief Grey Bear . . . . Champion of all that is Native and suspicious of all that is non-native. Please educate us oh Chief on the dangers of putting non-native species ahead of native ones. I slept through those lectures.

[Mark]

I am of the opinion to leave it just like it is. The fishing has been good for several years and it does seem the rainbows are getting bigger, thanks in part from the lowering of the limit from 5 to 4. I'm afraid browns would bring bigger crowds. IMO, the crowds have increased in the 15 years I have been a regular on the Eleven Point. I don't want to see it getting even more crowded.

I agree with the suggestion of doing more to increase the number of native species of pickerel and walleye.

[Brian Sloss]

They have been doing more with the walleye for a number of years now. They have planted walleye between hwy 160 and the Arkansas line a few times. These walleye, in large part, tend to run south to the Arkansas part of the river. They did a tagging study that had disappointing cooperation from the public with only a few tags called in, even with the rewards. One of the tags that was called in was in Van Buren on the Current, which might explain the lack of participation. Pickerel, smallmouth and goggle eye have consistently sampled very well for the MDC for years and appear to be doing quite well. The smallmouth and goggle eye limits appear to give us some quality fish.

[Gavin]

I'd be in favor of it, but its just not going to happen because of the Feds "No Non-Native Species" mandate. Not much point in debating the subject unless we see that changed at the Federal level...Dont hold your breath.