You Have A Friend

[Chief Grey Bear]

I would say that's an ideal outcome. Well done, Chief.

Who's got a right to what is important, but keeping the peace is too. Sounds like he knows how to do both.

Good news, Chief...sorry I didn't get my name added to the list before the thread was locked. I was unable to get back to the computer until late that night.

I hope that any of us on here will be willing to do what Chief and the guys did whenever and wherever this problem crops up.

Thanks guy's. I didn't see this earlier or I would have responded.

So what was the issue then? Somebody asked you to leave private property and?

So JD is asking questions, and your answers are less than nice, Have you got a hard on against people who weren't there are trying to ask questions to gey clarity on the subject? i think you're getting grumpy in your old age

Not quite Mitch. JD knows all to well of the situation. Don't think for a minute he hasn't been following along and even commenting from time to time. But just like FAUX NEWZ he takes a grain of truth and spins it into a bushel of falshoods and deceptions to appear genuine.

[jdmidwest]

Well, the first report was kinda vague, some posts were deleted, some threads were locked. Then, JD, had to deal with a tornado at the farm, being trapped by flash floods for 5 days with no phones or internet, and playing catchup with the real world when I got out. So, Crickets explanation was welcome.

As far as the private land problem goes, I have to deal with it here at several locations. One access has been closed on the Castor River at a county bridge, MDC and Madison County Sheriff Dept. have both stated that stepping out on dry land will result in a trespassing charge. It stemmed from a shooting/murder that occurred on the bridge a few years ago.

[Al Agnew]

Well, the first report was kinda vague, some posts were deleted, some threads were locked. Then, JD, had to deal with a tornado at the farm, being trapped by flash floods for 5 days with no phones or internet, and playing catchup with the real world when I got out. So, Crickets explanation was welcome.

As far as the private land problem goes, I have to deal with it here at several locations. One access has been closed on the Castor River at a county bridge, MDC and Madison County Sheriff Dept. have both stated that stepping out on dry land will result in a trespassing charge. It stemmed from a shooting/murder that occurred on the bridge a few years ago.

And there, my friends, is another part of the problem. Not many things tick me off more than closing an access because of alleged crime taking place there. That is punishing the entire public for the actions of a few. If there is crime taking place at an access, it is the JOB of the sheriff's department to POLICE the area, not to shut it down. If they have the manpower to come and arrest somebody that is supposedly trespassing at that former access, they danged well have the manpower to show up there on a Saturday night every so often and maybe make a few arrests, and if they did, the bad apples wouldn't be as likely to hang around there after that.

[Gavin]

Sounds like you had a talk with the Sheriff, so what, he didnt arrest you........What are the standing orders for dealing with Prater complaints?....Cooling off period..yadda, yadda...if you didnt get standing orders for dealing with Prater..........you got nothing.

[FishinCricket]

Sounds like you had a talk with the Sheriff, so what, he didnt arrest you........What are the standing orders for dealing with Prater complaints?....Cooling off period..yadda, yadda...if you didnt get standing orders for dealing with Prater..........you got nothing.

Chief was told by the Sheriff to "have the landowner call my, here's my number"

Therein lies my current concern.. I'd much prefer to hear that the Sheriff had educated his deputies and the landowner on the daggum law in advance than to have yet another confrontation with a grouchy landowner ad his armed assistant.

As someone else pointed out though, it'll all come to a quick head for the landowner when that campground downstream starts putting in floaters at Lime Kiln.. (don't see how that could be avoided).. One would assume that the Sheriff is aware of this as well, so it'd be an easy assumption to say that he's already had a pretty firm talk with his deputies about what is and isn't illegal... (one can only hope he's done the same with the landowner... I can just see that guys head exploding when he is told that he's not allowed to harass people who are wading, swimming, fishing and hanging out on the gravel bars during their float trips)

[David Unnerstall]

Well, the first report was kinda vague, some posts were deleted, some threads were locked. Then, JD, had to deal with a tornado at the farm, being trapped by flash floods for 5 days with no phones or internet, and playing catchup with the real world when I got out. So, Crickets explanation was welcome.

As far as the private land problem goes, I have to deal with it here at several locations. One access has been closed on the Castor River at a county bridge, MDC and Madison County Sheriff Dept. have both stated that stepping out on dry land will result in a trespassing charge. It stemmed from a shooting/murder that occurred on the bridge a few years ago.

jdmidwest,

Was that on CR 203 near Cascade? I heard there was a shooting there but I assumed it was people that just had a disagreement. Was it, in fact, a floater/landowner confrontation? That was an interesting place to go people-watching on a hot day. That is until my dumb-butt dog hiked his leg on the back of some dude. He did look like a tree, though. My buddy and I walked back out of there backwards.

[jdmidwest]

jdmidwest,

Was that on CR 203 near Cascade? I heard there was a shooting there but I assumed it was people that just had a disagreement. Was it, in fact, a floater/landowner confrontation? That was an interesting place to go people-watching on a hot day. That is until my dumb-butt dog hiked his leg on the back of some dude. He did look like a tree, though. My buddy and I walked back out of there backwards.

No, it was the blacktop one lane bridge off V. The shooting did not even have anything to do with fishing, but it made the landowners of the area think about the insurance liability of the area so I was told. It is legal to float a boat thru, wade thru, but banks of the area are private property. No road easements or right of way easements on county roads in Madison County, so it is private when you leave pavement.

[ozark trout fisher]

As you all know, I had a meeting with Mr. Copeland this morning. It lasted about 30 minutes and was very cordial and informative.

As I began speaking, some of the things that I stated, started to show a pattern of harassment from this particular land owner. I made my points on the rights of floaters as afforded by the 1954 court case. He agreed with all points. I was very surpised in that he seemed to know and agreed to all of these points without knowing about the court case itself.

To keep it short and sweet, it was stated to me that we as floaters have rights to the high water mark. You cannot litter or cause any type of property damage. He stated that he does not know where the high water mark is but, if you stay on the gravel bar you will not be tresspassing. If you are on an island surrounded by the stream, you are not tresspassing. If a landowner shows up and orders you to leave, do not engage in a shouting match. Do not do anything that may be viewed as a threat. Basically everything that is in the Elder vs. Delcour case was conveyed to me as being ok.

In closing, he offered his personal cell number and told me to call him if I needed too. To me that was some class and a strong gesture that he will protect our rights as he said he would.

But (yeah its that word) he will also protect the rights of the land owner. And I totally agree with that. It shouldn't ever have to come to the point where it has come but, it has. I was asked to stay away from this section of river and let things cool off. And I will. He also stressed that he doesn't want a group coming in and floating this section to test the waters. I gave my word that I would work with him and keep others out for a cool off period.

Now I know what you are thinking. "Chief, what right do you have to keep us off a stretch of water that you just fought to float? You can't keep us off of any stretch of water!" And you are absolutely correct. But you don't know where this stretch is other than it is on Shoal Creek near Neosho. And the fellas that did come on this float are a great bunch of stand up guy's that will honor my request. But if you do want to float this section, I'll see you in October.

And speaking of honoring request, I would like to thank those that responded to my request and were brave enough to sign your name on the dotted line and in a adult manner. Sadly though, some couldn't. But for those it was typical and was expected.

It was a good thing you did Chief. Maybe I will never float or fish Shoal Creek, but this kind of thing concerns all of us.

[ColdWaterFshr]

I'm kinda wondering about this "cool off period" that the sheriff wanted. As I understand it, it was you guys that kept your cool (unless there is more to the story), so why is it that you have to keep away from a public waterway? And can't go near it 'til October?? More I think about it, Chief, unless you have had some history with this guy Prater, I find it a little suspect that a warrant would come up over this one little incident. If not, and this one innocent little float trip was the ONLY incident, I'd say Chief, you got OWNED.

[jdmidwest]

I'm kinda wondering about this "cool off period" that the sheriff wanted. As I understand it, it was you guys that kept your cool (unless there is more to the story), so why is it that you have to keep away from a public waterway? And can't go near it 'til October?? More I think about it, Chief, unless you have had some history with this guy Prater, I find it a little suspect that a warrant would come up over this one little incident. If not, and this one innocent little float trip was the ONLY incident, I'd say Chief, you got OWNED.

Kinda why I thought there might have been "the rest of the story".