Fisherman/floaters Legal Rights

[Buzz]

Your honor, please call Buzz to the stand and make him solemnly testify to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Not in this KANGAROO court, thank you.

[ColdWaterFshr]

Your honor, objection again. Please move to strike troutfiends gratuitous and indulgent performance review and opinions on the matter of Chiefs relationship with the landowner. As witnessed in the youtube clip, the deputies and landowner were clearly anxious to know the whereabouts of a Chief Greybear and not nearly as anxious to discuss high water marks and things of other non-importance with the individuals in the jon-boat.

[ColdWaterFshr]

Like me to break it down into lay mans terms, tough. Basically I'm telling you that the relevance of Chiefs relationship with the landowner is substantially outwieghed by the unfair prejudice it would cause to a jury if this were a real case. Have fun boys, another final in one day.

PRECISELY. That is all this is about, Troutfiend, is Chiefs DIRTY LAUNDRY, isn't it? ISN"T IT???? LOOK AT ME WHEN I ADDRESS YOU SON, you lie under the very blanket of freedom that I provide, and while you joke about it at frat parties and cocktail parties, there are men like me out there defending . .. blah, blah, blah. I'm going to bed.

Your honor, I would like to call a recess until Chief Greybear can take the stand.

[eric1978]

TF is right...makes no difference who knows who, who has history, who slept with who's sister-in-law, who ran over who's dog...doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is these guys have the legal right to float and fish through this landowner's property, they have the legal right to wade in the stream, and they have the legal right to play around on the gravel bars. Period. You can object and call all the witnesses you want...it changes the law zero.

[ness]

Umm, I think it's already been discussed pretty adequately. Scroll down to "Trespassing on MO Creeks and Rivers", "You have a friend", and "Your voice counts". I think there was also a discussion in the Conservation board.

So we're not to discuss this new bit of info?

It's not about the law at this point for me -- I understand it just fine. It's about getting the full story. That's not too much to ask for given that several of us rallied behind this cause using our real names.

[ness]

Seems to me the folks doing all the defending weren't even there. And the ones that were ain't talking.

You wannabe lawyers consider this: the previous testimony has O-fishully been called into question.

[eric1978]

Seems to me the folks doing all the defending weren't even there. And the ones that were ain't talking.

You wannabe lawyers consider this: the previous testimony has O-fishully been called into question.

You don't have to be a lawyer to know a law or two. This stream is in the MDC Paddler's Guide, so navigability is not in question. They were doing nothing illegal, so there's nothing to defend. They are on the plaintiff's side of the courtroom, not Prater.

[FishinCricket]

Hmmmm.

Why were you rolling camera and keeping it concealed?

I can't speak for Solus, but I do believe that he was rolling camera because the cops were there to ?harass? us..

So, who was it in the boat doing all the talking? I'm guessing Cricket. There were instances of just plain being a smart azz, like 'if it makes you feel bigger', interrupting the guy (deputy?) to repeatedly ask who the agent was, and asking if the prosecutor was also a CA. Folks on the bank were keeping pretty cool throughout though.

Nope, I didn't say much on the video and you can barely hear me, your honor..

I guess Britt is Chief, and there's a history?

Yes, and yes (chief has floated this stretch before.. He doesn't leave his boat, nor did he for this float.

Do you just know Chief 'from the internet', or was that a bit of a stretch?

Most if us didn't even know his name was Brit.. Still don't know if I'm spelling it right. I truly only know him because of here. (the other thing you hear me say on the video)

Why press the point with '2-inches of water', etc.

Well, JDC? You're be asked a question... Hold on, John, err You Honor.. He's a bit shy...

When did the 'you'll be in a world of hurt' quoted in the earlier thread get said and by whom/to whom?

That quote was actually from the earlier encounter, before the video was taken.. I am sure Solus is sorry that he wasn't running his video camera the entire time, truly,.

I don't know any of you guys,

obviously

but I know something about your personalities here.

or think you do

I had a suspicion that there was some yakkin' going on, but I took you at your word.

And we were telling (and are telling) the truth... What have we been dishonest regarding?

So, I called the Sheriff, gave my name, work number and asked him to see that this situation gets corrected. Prolly would have passed on it if I'd have seen this first.

If you had any question about our actions or our motives, John, then you could have kept to yourself. We (including chief) were doing nothing wrong. We were being intimidated by these folks and all we had were fishing rods and apologies... This landowner (as he clearly stated) thinks he owns the streambed!! And the deputy stood right behind him and let him say it.

But whatever..

[FishinCricket]

here's the backfill for the boys who may not have heard it:

The first we saw of the landowners was the wife.. She snuck up on KC and I while we were standing on an island, fishing the hole between the island (which the sheriff later claimed is public land) and their land.. None of the other floaters were around, and after a short interchange (where Mr Prater was rather cordial and explained what he felt his rights were, explained that he was concerned about an outfitter downstream that was going to start putting floaters in and that hordes of people would soon be tearing up his stream and scaring his livestock) he actually said "You guys are okay, just stay in the river?" and they walked away...

He and I hiked back upstream, where Chief and the others were floating down slowly through a 100 yard long hole and told Chief what had transpired...

Some of us were floating, some were out wading, some had their canoes banked on the gravel on the Prater streamside.. I don't recall anyone being more than 10ft from the water, and all of us were fishing or taking pictures.. No more, no less..

That's when the pistol packing (neighbor? Friend? He never said..) "watchdog" came walking through the woods on the Prater streamside and exchanged words with us... No one got that recorded, but to paraphrase:

(as watchdog approached)

Floater2: Find any morels back in there?

Watchdog: I wouldn't say if I did! Bastards keep stealin em!! Listen, you folks are gonna hafta leave, you're on private property.. You need to get back in your boats.

Britt: We were under the impression, kind and gentle sir, that this was a public river thoroughfare and as such, we are within our rights to remain as such, fishing hither and thither whilst collecting all manner of gar-baaage and admiring the babbling brook.. (paraphrase gave way to embellishment, sorry... All he really got to spit out was a stammering stutter about "This is a river, isn't it?" and "We were told..")

Watchdog: Who told you that you could float this?

Britt: We've already talked with the guy who owns the place, and.."

Watchdog: Really? What's his name?

Britt: who?

Watchdog: the landowner that you talked to, what's his name?

Floater3: we just spoke with the land owner and his wife.. In the Silverado there..

Watchdog: we'll just ask him then, here he comes.

(landowner walks up)

Landowner1: (Points to Britt) I recognize you, you're the one who works for the highway department.. I've told you before to get off my land, why do you keep at it?

Britt: good and kind sir, it behooves me to remind that... (= I can't remember exactly what chief said, maybe he can remember.. It wasn't harsh though)

Landowner: that's it, I want you and all your friends to get off my land.. I'm calling the Sheriff..

(by then one of the other floaters had waded down to the hole that KC and I first encountered the landowner and was fishing it from the Island)

Watchdog: hey, here's another one down here!!

We all shove off and Chief heads downstream, waaaaay downstream.. Most everyone else stayed within a 300 yard range of that gravel bar and were in area pictured when the Deputies showed back up..

Transcript of video

cast

floater1= Jason Carroll

floater2= Tony Huntington

floater3= Cricket Staggs

Deputy as himself

landowner1= Mr Prater

Landowner2= Mrs Prater

floater1: What is it? what are you going to let run?

floater2: The camera, Just letting it run, get audio at least.

floater1: Yea,

deputy: Guy's know Britt?

floater1: From the internet.

deputy: What?

floater1: From the internet.

deputy: From the internet? What's that mean?

floater1: We talk to him on a fishing forum.

floater3: Ya, I was saying, We're all friends on an on line forum.

deputy: Ok, well let you guys know this is all private property alright? Can't have anyone out on the banks, alright?

floater1: We're legal to the high water mark right?

deputy, landowner1 and 2: No, no / No,

deputy: Not in the state of missouri man.

floater1: As long as we're in 2 inches of water here, we're good?

deputy: I already talked to the conservation about it, stay off the property allright?

floater1: But, right here, where we're in water, is that good?

deputy: As long as your not banked on the property, if your in the water your fine.

floater1: Thank you sir.

deputy: So he went on down there?

landowner1: He went on down there?

floater3: Yes sir.

deputy: What kind of boats he in ?

floater3: A canoe.

deputy: A canoe? Ok, thanks.

(inaudible, deputy and landonwer exchange)

floater1: Which agent did you guys talk too?

deputy: One of the Missouri conservation agents.

Landowner1: Dex Coby(?), the prosecutor.

floater1: He's a conservation agent too?

Deputy: No, I spoke with the conservation agent.

floater1: Do you know which one it was ?

landowner1:... Adam, you can call and verify it with Agent Adam (Grant? kinda inaudible)

floater1: Do you know which uhh, which conservation agent it was?

deputy: No, you can call and speak with any of the conservation agents they'll tell you the same thing.

floater1: Ok, I was just curious.

deputy: alright

(inaudible)

landowner: Your going to go with him. (points at floater1 indicating that he, too, would be going to the pokey like Chief)

floater1: Go where ?

landowner1: Go ahead, I already caught you out on the bank. I'm being nice to you. Don't push it.

floater1: I wasn't out on the bank.

landowner1: I was being nice.

floater1: I was the one standing in the water fishing.

landowner1: Your in the water, your trespassing. Your standing in the, the bottom of the creek. Gotta stay in the boat partner.

floater1: If it makes you feel bigger.

(unaudible)

floater1: Are you going to stay then?

landowner1: Keep it up.

floater2: It's a sad day.

[troutfiend1985]

I would say that a couple of people have lost a lot of respect from me on this issue. Not that it carries much weight, but I just wanted to throw that out there. Look, I wasn't there, but I don't think the comments were smart assed Ness. And if you think that somehow Chiefs relationship with this Prater guy has any bearing on what was right and wrong, well then go pee up a tree and tell yourself its raining, because that is just about how much sense you guys are making. Really I don't like calling people out, but what makes you think that you have a need to know? What, because of an internet forum petition you signed? Really? Allright, I guess that made all of the difference in the world and Chief along with Buzz and Cricket should spill their guts about every beef they have ever had with a person that might fractionally make a difference. BTW, did you guys sign that petition because you were backing Chief from a legal stance, or you were taking sides chiefs "personal issues with Prater/Bad Blood" (if there are any, and I really don't think there are from what I know) Get real and grow up.