Catch And Releaser's Should Stop At Their Limit?

[FishinCricket]

a member here made the following statement in regards to a fellow members fishing report:

Just a thought.... If you reel in 25 fish in one outing, are you doing anyone else a favor or just creating higher fishing pressure levels? In the state of MO, with most trout being in existence only due to stocking our waters, catching a limit should be considered even with catch and release at some point.

This isn't the first time I have heard this. Frankly, I routinely get this from bait fishermen on the river when I come through and stick three or four stockers right in front of them.

I am just curious what the rest of the class thinks? Also, bear in mind that this isn't a question of law, but of "ethics"...

[ozark trout fisher]

a member here made the following statement in regards to a fellow members fishing report:

This isn't the first time I have heard this. Frankly, I routinely get this from bait fishermen on the river when I come through and stick three or four stockers right in front of them.

I am just curious what the rest of the class thinks? Also, bear inimd that this isn't a question of law, but of "ethics"...

That's a good question and there is no clear answer. I don't really think a fisherman should have to stop fishing after they have caught and released 4 trout. I do think that if you're catching and releasing, say 50 fish in one day, you are probably not doing other fisherman much good. After you have caught a certain number of fish and keep fishing, it is possible to begin to wonder what point you're trying to make anyway. You are educating all of the fish you catch, and probably some of them aren't surviving either. I think that like most such issues it is just a matter of judgement and depends a lot on the situation...I usually stop fishing for the day when I feel like I've caught enough, and when catching more just seems kind of cheap (not that I get to that point very much, often enough I'm struggling just to catch one or two!). How many is enough just depends on where I am fishing. I fished one tiny pond in the Flat Tops wilderness earlier this month, that was so small that you could cast easily to the other side of the pond pretty much wherever you were. In a place like that, I caught one native cutthroat trout and that was enough. Mainly I just wanted to get a good look at one of these beautiful fish. Anymore would just be unnecessary and there were few enough fish that a few trout that didn't survive release could have a real negative impact.

But somewhere like the upper Current where the trout densities are high, I can feel pretty okay about catching and releasing 15 or 20 fish. But if I get to that point I will more than likely do something else for the rest of the day, maybe go for a hike or something. Not because I'm trying to make some ethical point, but just because I've usually satisfied my urge to catch fish by then anyway, and it's just time to do something else for awhile.

[Flysmallie]

So Cricket, with his, logic it would be better for everyone if I just stay home.

What if the fish I catch are not keeper size, may I continue at that point? And if the answer is yes, aren't I still education them? I kind of see the logic, but it makes no sense.

Look at it this way. And I will use bass for an example because they make more trout everyday. I get limited time to fish, so I'm only able to go 1 day per month. Bill Babler on the other hand is on the lake almost everyday. So what you guys are suggesting is that I should be limited to my 6 per month while Bill is able to catch 180. Yeah that makes perfect sense.

I think I will go and catch as many as I desire. I wouldn't keep catching fish if I felt that they were suffering in anyway but I don't think they are in Capps Creek in January.

With this logic they should close the trout parks to C&R fishing in the winter. Don't want to wise them up so much that they won't eat those little trout worms later on.

[Al Agnew]

I agree, it's a good question that has several components.

1. Is it harming the fish population to continue fishing and catch and release as many as you can? That would probably depend upon the number you catch, the way you handle them during and after reeling them in, and the population dynamics of the place you're fishing. I believe I handle the fish with care, don't play them too long, and very seldom hook them deeply, so I figure the delayed mortality of the fish I catch is probably 5% or so. That means that if I catch 100 bass a day on a really good day, I'm probably killing around 5 of them. Less than a limit. A really good day for me on a trout stream would be maybe 30 fish, so I'm probably killing 1-2 of them, again within the parameters of a limit. So I don't really think I'm doing undue damage to the population.

2. Is it educating the fish to where they are much more difficult for other anglers (or yourself on the next trip) to catch? Here, I think bass and trout are different. Heavily pressured bass waters really do get a lot tougher to fish. Heavily pressured trout waters get tougher for the casual angler, but I don't think they get as tough for the experienced angler as bass waters do. Just my opinion, based upon considerable experience in heavily pressured trout waters. In this case, it may be as much a matter of you personally not pounding the water over and over again. On the small creeks where I do a lot of wade fishing for smallmouth, I catch a lot of fish when I go, but I don't hit any one section of creek more than two times a year.

3. Is it wrong to have the goal of catching as many fish as possible? I often count my catch of bass, keeping track of exact numbers. So it may look like I'm just trying to rack up a "score". I don't think that's the case, however. It's more a wish to have comparisons from day to day, stream to stream, etc. I don't have to catch 100 bass a day, or 50 bass a day, or 20 bass a day, to make it a good or bad day. Truth be known, perhaps the biggest reason I keep fishing just as hard after catching 50 bass is to just see and feel once again the strike, which is my biggest rush in fishing--I don't like the "battle" afterwards nearly as much, and I've even thought about taking the hooks off topwater lures just so I can watch them strike without having to bring them in and unhook them. The only thing that stops me from doing that is the other reason why I keep fishing hard on a good day...the possibility of catching a really big fish. Ordinarily the best chance you have at catching truly exceptional fish is during days when the fish are very active and you're dialed into what they are wanting. Those days don't happen all the time, and when they do you probably want to take full advantage of the possibilities.

[ozark trout fisher]

3. Is it wrong to have the goal of catching as many fish as possible? I often count my catch of bass, keeping track of exact numbers. So it may look like I'm just trying to rack up a "score". I don't think that's the case, however. It's more a wish to have comparisons from day to day, stream to stream, etc. I don't have to catch 100 bass a day, or 50 bass a day, or 20 bass a day, to make it a good or bad day. Truth be known, perhaps the biggest reason I keep fishing just as hard after catching 50 bass is to just see and feel once again the strike, which is my biggest rush in fishing--I don't like the "battle" afterwards nearly as much, and I've even thought about taking the hooks off topwater lures just so I can watch them strike without having to bring them in and unhook them. The only thing that stops me from doing that is the other reason why I keep fishing hard on a good day...the possibility of catching a really big fish. Ordinarily the best chance you have at catching truly exceptional fish is during days when the fish are very active and you're dialed into what they are wanting. Those days don't happen all the time, and when they do you probably want to take full advantage of the possibilities.

No Al, I don't believe there is anything wrong with that. But that is not my goal, and for one simple reason.

For me, fishing is in a large part about satisfying curiosity, and answering the ever present questions. What do the conditions tell me about how I should fish? What are the fish feeding on? Do I have the right fly in my box? Where should I be presenting that fly, and how? And if I do have the right flies and the right presentation, is my skill level enough to catch fish in these conditions? After I catch a dozen or so fish or often less than that, those questions seem answered to me. And I'm always happy when that happens, because it allows me to spend time checking out the area, hiking in the beautiful country that surrounds nearly all of our trout and smallmouth streams, maybe getting on top of one of those big tall bluffs along the river and seeing the scenery from that vantage point. This is a big part of why I like to spend time on Ozark streams (and an especially big part of why I like the Current River so much), and without this the experience just wouldn't be complete for me.

[rps]

Well you hair splitters just go right on ahead. For me, if the limit is in the cooler, I'm headed to the dock. If it isn't, I'm fishing. Since I don't keep bass unless it's a 10 pounder or better (I have never caught one and don't expect to)I never run into the full cooler problem.

To be honest, I rarely stay on the bass long enough to catch a limit of keepers. I don't recall a single day this year and only two last year. No, three. Had a day year before last where I caught 63 with ten keepers, all on top water. Come on, who's going to quit a top water bite that good?

[Dave Cook]

I too think this is a good question. I've thought about this myself especially on an excellent fishing day when I have C&R many fish.

I believe educating fish is a good thing. I try to educate as many as I can. In a put and take environment like Bennett Spring or the Niangua River educated fish is about all you will find three days after the hatchery truck has been there. In the case of the trout park, having these educated fish carryover to the next day just increases the odds for any fisherman to catch more fish on the following day. And in the case of the Winter C&R season at Bennett, the fish are so well educated by all the fishermen, that by the end of the season they are so well educated that they begin to teach me a thing or two about fishing.

As far as my catch and release limit. I've limited my catch at Crane Creek by not going there for years. If C&R has a 10% (this is a number to illustrate a point, not a scientific finding) mortality, then I am uneasy catching and releasing ten fish there in a day. And if someone that lives near Crane Creek fishes there once a week or more, then they are lucky.

On the other hand, using these numbers, I could catch and release 40 fish at Bennett Spring every day and "harvest" just as many fish as a bait fisherman taking home his limit. Since the source of my limit came daily from a hatchery, I have no regrets about my harvest.

In another example, after the flood of 2008 at Taneycomo, the fish were under such thermal stress and low oxygen in Sept/October, that I quit fishing until water conditions returned to heathly levels. There were enough fish already dying without me helping them along. I had to wait for turnover at Table Rock. This past winter (2010-11) the fishing at Taneycomo was exceptional and there was no limit on my C&R. One released 16" trout at Taneycomo that dies is unaceptable to me. One 16" fish from Bennett Spring makes a tastey grilled trout.

I have no problem with anyone taking a limit of legally harvested fish and I hope all fishermen has some set of ethics that go beyond what is spelled out in the "code". I am satisfied with the "management" of our fisheries in Missouri. I wish I felt satisfied with the management of our water quality. I believe educating fishermen and teaching them a set of ethics (and sometimes manners) is important for the future of fishing. Ethics and values are discussed and debated quite a bit on this forum and my education continues.

So if the question is, should I be limited to landing four trout a day even if I let them go unharmed, regardless of what body of water they came from, then your set of ethics and mine are vastly different.

[Bruegy]

Im not one to usually comment on ethic or legal issues, because they just lead to senseless arguments, but this one hit a nerve.

Sounds to me like somebody is just frustrated that they cant catch fish, and i can understand that, but that doesnt mean we should penalize others. I enjoy fishing so much that i do not wish keep them, even more so anything that is nice sized. Everyone likes to catch fish and even more big fish, so why not share? I also fish with barbless hooks and a rubber net to minimize fish handling and safely return the fish asap.

Higher fishing pressure levels? if we are talking about a trout park here, give me a break...ive caught many of fish with other flies in their mouth or their mouth is tore up in multiple spots from being caught before.

I wouldnt say my goal is to catch as many as possible in a day, but catch some fish and enjoy a full day on the water. I will often switch rods and the style i am fishing not because it isnt working but just to mix it up so that i am not doing the same thing all day.

C and R is what i love about fishing, i can go out have fun, enjoy nature and not have to kill the animal like i do with hunting.

Kevin

[Ham]

I go fishing with the intent to catch every darn fish I can. Not just for the numbers, but catching more fish is in general more fun than not. It is more than a numbers game though. If I just wanted high numbers; I'd just fish bluegill, white bass during the run, and rainbows all the time.

I love feeling the bite or seeing the bite, but I want to get them to hand also. I enjoy the pull.

If by my C&R fishing I make it harder for others to catch fish, that's too bad. I have a responsibilty to handle thte fish properly and otherwise be a good stewart of the enviroment, but I feel no responsibility towards other anglers that I should quit my C&R fishing after a "limit" was caught or they might not have a good trip. I'm more than willing to share information annd lures to help people catch a few fish, but I'll never quit fishing so that other anglers potentially fishing behind me might be able to catch additional fish.

[laker67]

Let's see if I understand this correctly. Kill a limit of trout and go home, or release a limit of trout and go home. I just don't understand the math in that equation. I drive 2 hours to branson, I catch and release 4 fish and drive another 2 hours home. Of course I suppose I could get a motel, spend the night, then catch and release 4 more fish the following day before making the trip home. If some are thinking that catch and release is killing a bunch of fish, then they are doing something terribly wrong in between the hookup and the release part. If they say that catch and release is super educating the trout population, then perhaps it is time for them to attend class or take up ping pong for recreation. I can tell you for a fact that there are enough dumb trout out there to last a lifetime. Catch and release fishermen help populate a stream. Take a walk through zone 3 at bssp and count fish in the water. Go to zone 1 or 2 and do the same thing. I would venture to say that you could stand on the stone bridge and count more fish than you saw in the entire stretch of the bait water. Not many catch and release fishermen in zone 3. So my vote goes for, just do what you want to do, and stay the heck out of my "day off" on the water. Good fishing to everyone.