"open Fields" Program Cut

[3wt]

The Speaker of the House has been very clear about this. The "Job Creators" are on strike. Buisnesses are flush with cash that they won't spend because they're "uncertain". Funny how certain they were back in the 90s when taxes were even higher than they are now.

So sure...bury conservation...and the auto industry, and the banking industry and everything else until you get a paler shade of candidate in office but don't expect anyone to believe that economic growth has anything to do with eliminating conservation set asides.

Absolute nonsense. Nobody in business is so idealistic that they refuse to make money. The economy makes people unsure, uncertainty about taxes IN this economy makes them unsure. The situation is different than the 90's, when money was to be made regardless of how much tax there was. And after that period, when taxes went down revenue went up. Just doing nothing (since all entitlements seem to be sacred, conservation spending seems to be sacred, healthcare won't be paying for itself ever but it's sacred) and upping taxes won't ever get things moving.

But you cannot be serious that there's a conspiracy to hold off on business growth until theres a whitey in office. You could barely be more offensive if you tried. And the auto industry and auto unions buried themselves.

Outside bend, your comparing the DEBT to the DEFICIT. Not the same thing. The $15T is a running total of debt. Making $600M in cuts affects the budget deficit. It's a very common "mistake" politicians make, but it's not a legit comparison. It's like saying that you are $50G in debt, but this year you can only cut $500 out of your budget - but at least you're not spending more than your making. It seems small in comparison to the total debt, but the bleeding is beginning to stop.

I also agree that the elephants are the real problem, but I don't think anything is going to be

[Tim Smith]

Absolute nonsense. Nobody in business is so idealistic that they refuse to make money.

Refuse to make money?? What a convenient, twisted invention this is. The people holding capital are making more money now than they ever have. Their income is up over 300% over the last 30 years (compared to 18% for the bottom quartile). By selling this lie that business can't possibly be expected to participate in the economy until the whole world is kissing their rings, they stand to accrue more political power and more leverage in the long term. Make money? Oh yeah. That's in the plans. Your analysis here is shallow at best...but at this point I've grown tired of cutting that much slack for people who trot this nonsense out into a public forum. It's simply a lie that too many people have swallowed.

When people go on strike, they fully intend to make money in the long run. If you have a problem with that tactic, go talk to the speaker of the house who has endorsed it.

The economy makes people unsure, uncertainty about taxes IN this economy makes them unsure.

Unless you're big oil or making over 250K/annum it's pretty darn clear your taxes are staying the same or coming down. No one that anyone listens to has advocated anything else. Their uncertainty comes from hysteria, cynicism, posturing...and lies.

The situation is different than the 90's, when money was to be made regardless of how much tax there was.

Oh really? Nobody took a risk in the 90s? Nobody failed? Business was magical and certain back then? More absurdity and you're dodging the point. Taxes are already low compared to historical levels. A patriotic company would be investing now.

And after that period, when taxes went down revenue went up. Just doing nothing (since all entitlements seem to be sacred, conservation spending seems to be sacred, healthcare won't be paying for itself ever but it's sacred) and upping taxes won't ever get things moving.

Here is about the only place where your response isn't ridiculous. Yes. We have to cut spending. Yes, it might be conservation. But if it is conservation, there is going to have to be a response or we are going to lose opportunities and natural resources. So...private sector champions...how does this happen? What do we do when the public land has been sold and set asides are gone and we've turned into Texas where you can't get whiff of hunting land until you're paying someone through the nose for it.

That is the question that is solidly on the table for all of us now. There's no point in flinching until it is answered. Where are the private sector solutions?

But you cannot be serious that there's a conspiracy to hold off on business growth until theres a whitey in office. You could barely be more offensive if you tried.

Oh no, I could be vastly more offensive than that. For instance if I suggested the president (who belongs to my Christian denomination) were a Muslim...that would be pretty freaking offensive. Yet 30% of the population believes that garbage. If I were a birther...that that would be much more offensive...yet at one time 25% of the population believed THAT garbage.

If you think the people with those views aren't racist, you haven't been around the campfires I have been or you've kept your eyes shut pretty tight.

And GM and Chrysler might not appreciate that you're shoveling on the dirt on them already. Last I checked they were still in business. Every car I've bought for my personal use for the last 20 years has been manufactured by them and in my experience those companies make durable cars that I'm proud to drive. I suppose some of us still need to drive a Beamer (ok, Bimmer) to feel important...and export their manufacturing overseas so they can afford to fill the 3rd and 4th slot in their McMansion garages with one.

Sorry Phil. I know this deserves the X and I'll shut up now....just way tired of the nonsense and had to vent.

[FishinCricket]

Refuse to make money?? What a convenient, twisted invention this is. The people holding capital are making more money now than they ever have. Their income is up over 300% over the last 30 years (compared to 18% for the bottom quartile). By selling this lie that business can't possibly be expected to participate in the economy until the whole world is kissing their rings, they stand to accrue more political power and more leverage in the long term. Make money? Oh yeah. That's in the plans. Your analysis here is shallow at best...but at this point I've grown tired of cutting that much slack for people who trot this nonsense out into the public forum. It's simply a lie that too many people have swallowed.

When people go on strike, they fully intend to make money in the long run. If you have a problem with that tactic, go talk to the speaker of the house who has endorsed it.

Unless you're big oil or making over 250K/annum it's pretty darn clear your taxes are staying the same or coming down. No one that anyone listens to has advocated anything else. Their uncertainty comes from hysteria, cynicism, posturing...and lies.

Oh really? Nobody took a risk in the 90s? Nobody failed? Business was magical and certain back then? More absurdity and you're dodging the point. Taxes are already low compared to historical levels. A patriotic company would be investing now.

Here is about the only place where your response isn't ridiculous. Yes. We have to cut spending. Yes, it might be conservation. But if it is conservation, there is going to have to be a response or we are going to lose opportunities and natural resources. So...private sector champions...how does this happen? When the public land has been sold and set asides are gone and we've turned into Texas where you can't get whiff of hunting land until you're paying someone through the nose for it.

That is the question that is solidly on the table for all of us now. There's no point in flinching until it is answered. Where are the private sector solutions?

Oh no, I could be vastly more offensive than that. For instance if I suggested the president (who belongs to my Christian denomination) were a Muslim...that would be pretty freaking offensive. Yet 30% of the population believes that garbage. If I were a birther...that that would be much more offensive...yet at one time 25% of the population believed THAT garbage.

If you think the people with those views aren't racist, you haven't been around the campfires I have been or you've kept your eyes shut pretty tight.

And GM and Chrysler might not appreciate that you're shoveling on the dirt on them already. Last I checked they were still in business. Every car I've bought for my personal use for the last 20 years has been manufactured by them and in my experience those companies make durable cars that I'm proud to drive. I suppose some of us still need to drive a Beamer to feel important...and export their manufacturing overseas so they can afford to fill the 3rd and 4th slot in their McMansion garages with one.

Sorry Phil. I know this deserves the X and I'll shut up now....just way tired of the nonsense and had to vent.

Aces, Tim.. Simply aces.. . One point of order though: I think they spell it Bimmer...

[Smalliebigs]

until you get a paler shade of candidate in office but don't expect anyone to believe that economic growth has anything to do with eliminating conservation set asides.

Oh please......................................

[Trout Commander]

Aces, Tim.. Simply aces.. . One point of order though: I think they spell it Bimmer...

You sir, are correct in you entire post.

On the Bimmer topic, if anyone wants to not only feel important*, but have a very safe, reliable and even more fun to drive 2000 model 3 series with high miles for a cheap price give me a shout!

I promise to recirculate the money into the local economy through a mom and pop used car lot for a vehicle with four doors for my wife to drive.

*Effect not garuanteed, only implied by previous poster

[Justin Spencer]

On the Bimmer topic, if anyone wants to not only feel important*, but have a very safe, reliable and even more fun to drive 2000 model 3 series with high miles for a cheap price give me a shout!

Is that a 4 wheel drive?

I think we would all agree that govt. needs to be more responsible in it's spending, but cutting conservation measures is not like cutting other things. This adversely affects the ecosystem and in some instances the setbacks can last for generations. I'm not even concerned about the game species, but more about the soil and ecosystem of plants and bugs and animals that only thrive in conditions where the soil is not disturbed every few years. The forests and grasslands used to act like a sponge preventing flooding, and allowing groundwater to regenerate. Now overgrazed and trampled fescue pasture and plowed compacted farmland lead to excess runoff that leads to flooding and erosion, and does little to help recharge aquifers. The next great crisis in the country could very well be a water shortage as populations grow and aquifers become depleted from irrigation. Any setbacks in conservation measures just paves the way for more cutbacks as time goes on. I am a true independent that agrees with the republicans on many issues, the democrats on many, but I have lately leaned to the left for the simple reason that it seems the republicans don't care a lick about the environment. I would love to be proved wrong on this thinking, but time and time again it seems they put the bottom line above the good of the earth. We have no reset button or bailouts when we ruin the earth, in my opinion environmental impacts should be heavily weighted in every action the govt. takes, budgets be darn.

[Tim Smith]

Yes. We have to cut spending. Yes, it might be conservation. But if it is conservation, there is going to have to be a response or we are going to lose opportunities and natural resources. So...private sector champions...how does this happen? What do we do when the public land has been sold and set asides are gone and we've turned into Texas where you can't get whiff of hunting land until you're paying someone through the nose for it.

...not a whisper in reply.

I guess that pretty much sums it all up.

[Mitch f]

...not a whisper in reply.

I guess that pretty much sums it all up.

Sorry Tim, I just can't get over you calling people racists and lumping every one who drives a BMW as someone who wants to act important. Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed yesterday or something?

[Tim Smith]

Sorry Tim, I just can't get over you calling people racists and lumping every one who drives a BMW as someone who wants to act important. Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed yesterday or something?

Sorry you're sensitive about the fact that there's a racist demographic out there...

http://brooksmith.blogspot.com/2008/10/something-ugly-something-blue-something.html

...but they're in plain sight.

Maybe you know enough people calling Obama a Muslim that you can't afford to face the truth about that, but he belongs to my church and I've had enough of it.

The point about luxury goods stands as well. Buy whatever car you like just don't sit there with 6 figures worth of hardware in your garage and wring your hands about you're too afraid to come out of your house.

...and NO ONE has yet explained how the private sector is going to pick up the slack for conservation.

Crickets. Very quiet crickets.

[Mitch f]

Sorry you're sensitive about the fact that there's a racist demographic out there...

http://brooksmith.blogspot.com/2008/10/something-ugly-something-blue-something.html

...but they're in plain sight.

Maybe you know enough people calling Obama a Muslim that you can't afford to face the truth about that, but he belongs to my church and I've had enough of it.

The point about luxury goods stands as well. Buy whatever car you like just don't sit there with 6 figures worth of hardware in your garage and wring your hands about you're too afraid to come out of your house.

...and NO ONE has yet explained how the private sector is going to pick up the slack for conservation.

Crickets. Very quiet crickets.

First of all, anyone should know there is no way Obama is a Muslim because of his stance on homosexuals, Devout Muslims would never tolerate that.

But calling big business racist is as Eric says "A broad brush stroke". That's about as ridiculous as me saying that all occupy Wall Streeters are anti-sematic.

Glad you aren't shy about your christianity though, we need more of that around here.

I'm glad your passionate about conservation too, So am I