Elites Ban A-Rig

[cullinby9]

So, you will rant and rave about it's use, but you've never tried it, and you won't discuss options that would make it "more sporting"?

You take an elitist, I'm a big-time tournament fisherman attitude. You demean others for their opinion, and yet think that yours is the only one that counts?

I'll bet you're a treat to fish with?

If being against five lures fished on one line is elitist then thats what I am. In your first post you said you have no problem with the ban I don't understand why now your coming at me with your opinion of who I am. You also compared the guys that are against the a-rig to the occupy wall street protesters. In my opinion that is demeaning others. My points stated here are facts the a-rig is multiple lures fished on a single line, it does represent a ball of bait by using multiple lures, you cannot catch fish on a si or hydrowave. Even feathers and fins who I completely disagree with has made points that I look at and respect. I will have my boat back this week and I am going to start throwing this thing soon I will let everyone know how it goes for me but realize that this being legal in competition is forcing anglers to fish it or not fish at all.

[gitnby]

If being against five lures fished on one line is elitist then thats what I am. In your first post you said you have no problem with the ban I don't understand why now your coming at me with your opinion of who I am. You also compared the guys that are against the a-rig to the occupy wall street protesters. In my opinion that is demeaning others. My points stated here are facts the a-rig is multiple lures fished on a single line, it does represent a ball of bait by using multiple lures, you cannot catch fish on a si or hydrowave. Even feathers and fins who I completely disagree with has made points that I look at and respect. I will have my boat back this week and I am going to start throwing this thing soon I will let everyone know how it goes for me but realize that this being legal in competition is forcing anglers to fish it or not fish at all.

I said in my post that I have no problem with individual tournaments deciding whther to ban it or not. If MO. or other states decide to ban it, then I'm okay with that, too. But, for now, it is legal unless otherwise noted in a tournament.

My attempt at humor regarding the Occupy Wall Street comparison was just that. It just sounded like the haves vs the have-nots to me.

I'm pretty sure God didn't create Bass solely for the benefit of tournament fisherman! And, until there are studies that prove that the A-rig hurts the bass population, I don't see any reason not to allow fisherman to choose.

[cullinby9]

I said in my post that I have no problem with individual tournaments deciding whther to ban it or not. If MO. or other states decide to ban it, then I'm okay with that, too. But, for now, it is legal unless otherwise noted in a tournament.

My attempt at humor regarding the Occupy Wall Street comparison was just that. It just sounded like the haves vs the have-nots to me.

I'm pretty sure God didn't create Bass solely for the benefit of tournament fisherman! And, until there are studies that prove that the A-rig hurts the bass population, I don't see any reason not to allow fisherman to choose.

Do you think this rig was created for recreational fishermen? It's obvious to me his intent was to sell these things to an ultra competitive field of tournament anglers. Without the tournament hype how many people would even know what the a-rig is? without the success and results how many people would rush out and buy an 8 ft. rod and spool up 80# braid to cast 5 swimbaits at once at Table Rock just for fun? As the weeks pass by it is becoming clearer that these tournament organizations are not about true competition of man v. bass but about their bottom line selling product. For once lets not wait for there to be a study to tell me if the a-rig hurts bass pops. being proactive to eliminate it now before it has the chance to do harm right now our lakes are healthier than i have ever seen. i don't know that it'll negatively affect the bass but if it does and we find that out in hindsight it will be to late.

[cullinby9]

Here is another problem with the use of umbrella rigs in competition. In Michigan it is illegal so an angler fishes five bfl tourneys and cannot use the rig. He then qualifies for the regional and this year it is the same regional as the ozark division on barkley and kentucky lake. So now this guy is at a huge disadvantage not having the ability to fish the rig in his home state. For a national circut that crowns a national champion to handicap anglers because of the state they live is completely wrong.

[FishinCricket]

I never understood this , can someone explain? I fish walleye tournaments and we can troll, use live bait, and multiple rods at once.

Why don't they allow that is bass tournaments?

I'm afraid if the last seven pages haven't shed any light for you then another three or four pages inst going to help either... Don't feel bad, I don't really get it either... :scratches_head:

[Iclass]

Here is another problem with the use of umbrella rigs in competition. In Michigan it is illegal so an angler fishes five bfl tourneys and cannot use the rig. He then qualifies for the regional and this year it is the same regional as the ozark division on barkley and kentucky lake. So now this guy is at a huge disadvantage not having the ability to fish the rig in his home state. For a national circut that crowns a national champion to handicap anglers because of the state they live is completely wrong.

Where is the disadvantage? I mean all you have to do is throw it and they cant help but bite, right? Why does it matter if his state doesnt allow it? How is it wrong?

[gitnby]

Do you think this rig was created for recreational fishermen? It's obvious to me his intent was to sell these things to an ultra competitive field of tournament anglers. Without the tournament hype how many people would even know what the a-rig is? without the success and results how many people would rush out and buy an 8 ft. rod and spool up 80# braid to cast 5 swimbaits at once at Table Rock just for fun? As the weeks pass by it is becoming clearer that these tournament organizations are not about true competition of man v. bass but about their bottom line selling product. For once lets not wait for there to be a study to tell me if the a-rig hurts bass pops. being proactive to eliminate it now before it has the chance to do harm right now our lakes are healthier than i have ever seen. i don't know that it'll negatively affect the bass but if it does and we find that out in hindsight it will be to late.

I'm not clear on who you're pissed at? The lure manufacturers or the tournament organizations, or both?

I am NOT against tournament fishing or tournament fisherman. I do think there are too many tournaments, and should be limited by the Corps or MDC according to the total number of boats on the

Lake per weekend.

Let me ask you this? What has been the long-term effect of tournaments on the bass population in Table Rock Lake? I don't know the answer, but I have seen dozens of dead fish on Sunday nights and Monday mornings.

Do we outlaw tournaments because of that?

What if was determined that tournament fisherman were primarily responsible for the spread of the zebra mollusk in Table Rock? (hasn't happened, but it could?)

You contradict yourself when you complain about bottom line mentality. How many tournaments would you fish if there were no money or prizes provided by the boat, motor and tackle industries? If not for them, there primarily would be club and charity tournaments with low payouts, and many of them wouldn't survive without sponsors!

[cullinby9]

I'm not clear on who you're pissed at? The lure manufacturers or the tournament organizations, or both?

I am NOT against tournament fishing or tournament fisherman. I do think there are too many tournaments, and should be limited by the Corps or MDC according to the total number of boats on the

Lake per weekend.

Let me ask you this? What has been the long-term effect of tournaments on the bass population in Table Rock Lake? I don't know the answer, but I have seen dozens of dead fish on Sunday nights and Monday mornings.

Do we outlaw tournaments because of that?

What if was determined that tournament fisherman were primarily responsible for the spread of the zebra mollusk in Table Rock? (hasn't happened, but it could?)

You contradict yourself when you complain about bottom line mentality. How many tournaments would you fish if there were no money or prizes provided by the boat, motor and tackle industries? If not for them, there primarily would be club and charity tournaments with low payouts, and many of them wouldn't survive without sponsors!

The tournaments most guys fish pay back roughly 75% of the entries recieved, yes there are contingincies from ranger if you own a 2007 or newer boat that was bought new. We fish for the money we put up the only organization that pays pack 100% is omtt. I have no idea about how much money AiA makes a year but I guaranty with the big bass bash they're doing alright. I have always felt that thew sponsorship side of fishing is a joke not about angler talent on the water but how well they work the mouthpeice.

You said you were pretty sure god didn't created bass for tournament fishing only. In response i asked if the rig was designed for recreational use. It comes down to one line one rod one lure= sport (basketball) arig=exibition (harlem globetrotters)

[Feathers and Fins]

Why don’t BASS tournaments allow live bait? My opinion on that is simple. NO SPONSOR MONEY! Big tournament anglers are nothing more than paid spokesmen for those who sponsor them. These are not the average angler they have made a career out of a sport that is supposed to be fun. Seems they cry loudest as well when a new product comes out that force them to use it over their sponsor’s product to put up the wins. Let’s face reality if one lure comes out that force them to use it to win and it’s not one they are sponsored by it hurts their sponsor and hurt sponsor means less money to them.

I throw the A-rig now on a 7’9’’ medium action rod with 12lb mono line, I haven’t lost a bait yet on it since I switched, not saying I won’t but I haven’t yet, its forcing me to stay more to open water and pay more attention to where I throw it, and that is increasing my catches because im doing rule#1 more! Reading the water!!!

This lure has certainly made the tackle industry wake up and I’m sure we will see many more new lures come out designed for the rig. It has also gained a lot of attention to fishing in a slow time which is good, and its catching fish which will hopefully bring more people back to the sport which is always a good thing.

Tournament’s pay out. Now this I’m a little lost on. When I use to tournament fish club level and opens if you were not in the top 5 there was NO PAYOUT so I’m confused to how an angler gets 75% payback please explain that.

This rig/lure/ bait however anyone wants to call it has done one thing I see, It has evened the playing field out and put everyone on the same level. Now some might argue this is unfair as it takes away from the elite’s ability to out fish the average guy. But I will contend that if they are truly so elite and fish catching gods then they should still be able to out fish JOE. They are not the elite gods people think IMO they are IMO guys who have sponsors and can do it more often than most people. Give me 5 to 7 days of pre-fishing on any lake and ill put up good weigh in counts as will most people who can read the water and conditions.

I’ve fished this bait now enough to know its definitely got its uses and limitations. It will be a good bait on open water fish (no surprise as its origin was designed open water fish) It will not be a good bait in any kind of cover ( might work but you will be buying new ones often).

Most the complaints are about the multiple bait part of the rig. The rig still needs to be thrown where there are fish and they still have to bite the rig. Also if the baits on it are not what they after ( size color ) they won’t bite it. Bottom line the way I see it and from using it is simple. It has its place and time for use. For the average angler it seems to boost confidence so more are being bought and used of course more fish are being caught and caught on them. For the pro-s they are crying IMO because it’s a sponsorship issue, as well as they don’t like the fact JOE can beat them with it because it gives him confidence and he will stick with it. 90% of fishing is mental and if a lure comes along that gives people the mental drive to believe in it removes the edge the pro’s have in sticking to something knowing it will work.

[Phil Lilley]

FishinCricket,

I know, I've read alot of opinions too.

I still have not found here or anywhere else why live bait and trolling is not allowed in just about every bass derby.

Nobody seems to know the real reason WHY? All the answers I've read, found, got were based on opinion only.

The guys who tournament fish who have physical ailments could troll their A-rigs , because some of them sure can't throw 1 for the entire day ....If they can't cast it all day there's a feeling of confidence lost to a certain point.If live bait,trolling,multiple rods,and rigs of all kinds were allowed in SOME bass tournaments it would help the whole sport become more fun for everybody who wants to do it.

I haven't been following this topic cause I'm not a bass fisherman but your comment caught my eye. Someone might have already touched on this but -

to answer your question about bait in sanctioned Missouri tourneys, MDC requires sanctioned bass tourneys to be catch and release, artificial lures only. They're not going to let you say you're catch and release and let you use live bait- mortality rate is too high when using bait.

This is the only reason MDC allows culling -- in sanctioned tournaments, otherwise you're not allowed to cull.

So if you do see a tournament that allows bait, it's not sanctioned or they're slipping one in on MDC.

Private tournaments are another thing. If they bend MDC rules, they open themselves up to individual violations.

I'm going by what I've been told in the past by MDC people so I'm not saying I'm 100% correct. I can check and get back.