exiledguide Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 A recent column in the paper reported that the Elk Zoo was costing, I believe, three times the cost that the MDC PooBahs said it would. Oh thats right, I'm not supposed to question any stupid projects the MDC PooBahs waste money on or suggest that they knew the cost all along and lied about the cost. Wonder what that money could have been used in the management of animals already here?
ozark trout fisher Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 A recent column in the paper reported that the Elk Zoo was costing, I believe, three times the cost that the MDC PooBahs said it would. Oh thats right, I'm not supposed to question any stupid projects the MDC PooBahs waste money on or suggest that they new the cost all along and lied about the cost. Wonder what that money could have been used in the management of animals already here? I sure like your attitude. A native species being reintroduced in the wild is a zoo, and a waste of money? Isn't that what a conservation department is supposed to do? The MDC's only purpose isn't just to make your hunting and fishing better. If you have some constructive criticisms of the MDC we'd all be interested to hear it, but until then... Maybe you are you just looking to stir the pot?
exiledguide Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 I sure like your attitude. A native species being reintroduced in the wild is a zoo, and a waste of money? Isn't that what a conservation department is supposed to do? The MDC's only purpose isn't just to make your hunting and fishing better. If you have some constructive criticisms of the MDC we'd all be interested to hear it, but until then... Maybe you are you just looking to stir the pot? How about using those funds for reverseing the decline in the numbers of Quail and Pheasants in MO how about more access in the southern part of MO for Duck hunters,how about more programs for kids hunting and fishing, how about more community lakes, how about more urban fishing progams, How bout finding out if the Neosho Smallmouth is a different strain and then, if true,. making sure it gets whatever protection it needs to maintain its place in the wild. If that's stirng the pot, I'm proud to do it. You seem to think that an objective view of things that the MDC have done should not be allowed on this forum. If you would ask any who has ever known me they would tell you I was the biggest champion of the MDC but when wrong decisions are made by anyone working for a state agency I am going to speak up as I did when River Otters were reintroduced into Ozark Streams, which now the MDC admits might not have been the best idea, returning a preadator to the rivers that had not been there for how many generations of fish and crawfish. My objection to the Peck Zoo is the cost and my experiance of living in Arkansas where the most likely place to see an Elk is in fenced private proprty forageing with cattle with no compensation for the owner. The last I heard AFG wanted to move the Elk to 10,000 acres of wilderness along the Buffalo which will be off limits to hunters. Maybe someone living in Arkansas has more on that issue.
ozark trout fisher Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 How about using those funds for reverseing the decline in the numbers of Quail and Pheasants in MO how about more access in the southern part of MO for Duck hunters,how about more programs for kids hunting and fishing, how about more community lakes, how about more urban fishing progams, How bout finding out if the Neosho Smallmouth is a different strain and then, if true,. making sure it gets whatever protection it needs to maintain its place in the wild. If that's stirng the pot, I'm proud to do it. You seem to think that an objective view of things that the MDC have done should not be allowed on this forum. If you would ask any who has ever known me they would tell you I was the biggest champion of the MDC but when wrong decisions are made by anyone working for a state agency I am going to speak up as I did when River Otters were reintroduced into Ozark Streams, which now the MDC admits might not have been the best idea, returning a preadator to the rivers that had not been there for how many generations of fish and crawfish. My objection to the Peck Zoo is the cost and my experiance of living in Arkansas where the most likely place to see an Elk is in fenced private proprty forageing with cattle with no compensation for the owner. The last I heard AFG wanted to move the Elk to 10,000 acres of wilderness along the Buffalo which will be off limits to hunters. Maybe someone living in Arkansas has more on that issue. Some of the conservation issues that you brought up are valid ones (except pheasants, which are non-native to this continent) but are they more important than reintroducing a long-lost native species just because they are more likely to provide good hunting and fishing opportunities than elk will? I don't personally think so. And would you please stop referring to it as the "Peck Zoo"? If you had ever been down to that truly wild and beautiful country you would never call it that. It's the place where I first fell in love with the Ozarks and will always have a special place in my heart. Objective views of the MDC are encouraged, but referring to them as "Poobahs" and referring to the project as "Peck Zoo" doesn't fit the bill.
fishinwrench Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 If you have some constructive criticisms of the MDC we'd all be interested to hear it, I have some.... "spoonbill". They spend millions on that project annually and Snaggers bring nothing to the table. The only revenue gained from the spoonbill resource comes in the form of FINES for infractions during snagging season. The whole ordeal is rediculis IMO, they rip hooks into them but have to release them if under a certain length....and most usually die. (the proof of that is in all the coon bait wsshed up on the banks after snagging season). They do not, I dont think, help substancially control plankton. At least not enough to make a difference, like they claim. I think it would be in everyones interest to dump the spoonbill project all together and put that money and effort to better use.
drew03cmc Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 How about using those funds for reverseing the decline in the numbers of Quail and Pheasants in MO how about more access in the southern part of MO for Duck hunters,how about more programs for kids hunting and fishing, how about more community lakes, how about more urban fishing progams, How bout finding out if the Neosho Smallmouth is a different strain and then, if true,. making sure it gets whatever protection it needs to maintain its place in the wild. If that's stirng the pot, I'm proud to do it. You seem to think that an objective view of things that the MDC have done should not be allowed on this forum. If you would ask any who has ever known me they would tell you I was the biggest champion of the MDC but when wrong decisions are made by anyone working for a state agency I am going to speak up as I did when River Otters were reintroduced into Ozark Streams, which now the MDC admits might not have been the best idea, returning a preadator to the rivers that had not been there for how many generations of fish and crawfish. My objection to the Peck Zoo is the cost and my experiance of living in Arkansas where the most likely place to see an Elk is in fenced private proprty forageing with cattle with no compensation for the owner. The last I heard AFG wanted to move the Elk to 10,000 acres of wilderness along the Buffalo which will be off limits to hunters. Maybe someone living in Arkansas has more on that issue. Pheasants deserve the same amount of additional protection as brown trout, none. The current regulations are fine, and in some cases, excessive, but that is neither here nor there. Elk belong here along with mountain lions. Whether or not you agree with it is irrelevant. The elk and the area they have been reintroduced into is far from a zoo, and more wild than most places in Missouri. Otters belong in our rivers and the fish populations may take a couple years to find equilibrium with the reintroduced otter, but if conserving and preserving a NATURAL resource is wrong, what would you have the MDC do? Notice that I emphasized natural. Trout aren't natural here, otters are. I am all for genetic testing of Neosho smallmouth to determine genetic differences between them and northern strain smallmouth. There are notable appearance differences, along with some minor habitat preference differences, but the extent of genetic differences are what intrigue me. Some of the conservation issues that you brought up are valid ones (except pheasants, which are non-native to this continent) but are they more important than reintroducing a long-lost native species just because they are more likely to provide good hunting and fishing opportunities than elk will? I don't personally think so. And would you please stop referring to it as the "Peck Zoo"? If you had ever been down to that truly wild and beautiful country you would never call it that. It's the place where I first fell in love with the Ozarks and will always have a special place in my heart. Objective views of the MDC are encouraged, but referring to them as "Poobahs" and referring to the project as "Peck Zoo" doesn't fit the bill. I realize that you and I don't agree on much OTF, but we both love the Ozarks and the species native to them. I can definitely agree with you on that one. Wrench, the difference in spoonbill and, say, pheasant, is that the spoonbill is indigenous to this area, much less this continent. The elk are indigenous to this area as well, regardless of what embittered "sportsmen" want to say. Andy
ozark trout fisher Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 I realize that you and I don't agree on much OTF Well, I wouldn't take that too personally. Some people have actually accused me of being a bit disagreeable. I know you care about Ozark streams. Never doubted that a bit. But I just like to argue, and you do too, so I guess that's just how it shakes out.....
drew03cmc Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 Well, I wouldn't take that too personally. Some people have actually accused me of being a bit disagreeable. I know you care about Ozark streams. Never doubted that a bit. But I just like to argue, and you do too, so I guess that's just how it shakes out..... Eh, hell, over the years, we have gotten good at arguing. Andy
awhuber Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 The Rocky mountain elk were never in Missouri. The MDC introduced a non- native speices at a cost of $30,000.00 a pop. Rocky mt elk could have been bought in MO. at around 3-4 grand each from private ranchers.
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