Meramec Dam Project

[Greasy B]

The Mid Meramec is a treasure. Like many of our rivers it suffers from a blight of misuse, overuse and mistreatment but if you work a little you can find windows of peace, solitude and some fine angling. Knowing this river and spending time on it has been one of my life’s greatest gifts.

[skeeter]

I ain't arguing with Skeeter anymore...I suspect, as is almost always the case in these types of disputes, the real truth lies somewhere in between the black and white "facts" of either side. The only real "fact" that remains is that one side won, one side lost, and the river remains.

Correct. As I mentioned in my original post, most of what you posted in your first posting was true the way it went down.

I wasn't really "arguing", there was no point in that, it's over and done with. All I was doing was stating the facts, as I knew them, from the other side of the coin as there are always two, and sometimes, three or four sides to every issue and the board-member making the original inquiry deserved to hear both sides. These days, so many (not you) choose to forget, ignore and completely disrespect those with opposing opinions and views.

[hank franklin]

The Meramec truly is one of God's great creations. Being so close to where I live I used to sniff at it for a while and spent my time for a while on the Current, Piney or points further south. In recent years I've returned to the Meramec and the stretches near the park, Onondaga, further up near the spring, are among the most high-value stretches anywhere in the Ozarks. Sublime.

Even though I was raised on the Bourbeuse, (weekends at least) I've always thought that if you HAD to have a dam, the Bourbeuse might have been ok. I don't really know the Bourbeuse dam back story very well but if you're going to destroy a section of river the Bourbeuse might have been worth the sacrifice. That's kind of a sacrilege coming from me, but the recreational qulaity of the Bourbeuse is second-rate compared to the Meramec.

Having said that, as I said from my perspective today I am frankly amazed at the complete government trespass that this project represents. And, as usual, it's disappointing to see discussions devolve into some kind of political argument, L's vs' C's or whatever. I'm a very solid C who also, gasp!, believes in conservation. There is nothing conservative about dam-building. Though I was not attuned to the politics of the 70's, it appears there was some L vc. C going on back then. Would it be the same today? Almost certainly. That's what's disappointing, that a true people's resource--the river and the wildlife and all the bounty that comes with it--could become a political football, pitting the dreaded L's vs. C's. Shouldn't we ALL fight off the government when it comes to take your river, not to mention the land beside it? If Dill and the others resorted to dirty tricks to fend off the government who could blame them? I would fight to the death too.

Conservation is one area on which L's and C's should generally agree. Conservation is a legitimate purpose of government and while I don't like government takings and useless and flat-stupid regulations, we do need reasonable laws to protect our resources. One of the great beauties of the Meramec is that it is a mix of public and privately owned land--you have magnificent public parks, some rather robust private businesses (Oz Outdoors and others), your large heritage farms and then that most beautiful of Meramec creations, the clubhouse! Grandpas and kids and the grandkids and the neighbors and the cousins and the rugrats grilling and tipping a few and throwing horseshoes on a sweet summer evening. Trotlines by evening.

Ask anyone at a July party on the river if the river ain't the greatest thing God ever invented and to a man they'll all say "yup." And chances are most of them would vote against any dam L who tries to tell them what they ought to do with it. As it should be. At the same time we don't have the great river we have without some of the gov't initiatives to help protect it, CRP, soil-water districts, stream teams even. There needs to be a little bit of government when it comes to conservation, emphasis on "little bit." Protect the resource! I think we can all agree on that.

I'll try to stop while I'm ahead. I am sick of the massive gov't intrusions of both political parties. Period. We have got to get back to small limited gov't by, of and for the people. Yes the Meramec dam vote saved a precious precious resource. It also kept big government out of our neighborhood. Hooray, and hallelujah! This was a monumental win for the people. Come on down to the river sometime and we can have a beer over it.

[eric1978]

Conservation is one area on which L's and C's should generally agree.

That's right...should. But apparently we don't. You're obviously a reasonable guy, Hank...I'm sure you can plainly see that the leaders and constituents of one of our major parties puts capitalism and convenience above all else, at the peril of all else, including, and especially, conservation. That's just reality, and I hope that more reasonable C's like you would exert intense pressure on your party's leaders and persuade them to put the conservation of our planet above their buddies' business interests, or else you'll look elsewhere for leadership. That's my hope. But I'm not holding my breath.

And this thread didn't devolve into politics...it is political by nature, and to pretend otherwise is ignoring critically important aspects of the lessons we've learned about the government itself and its relationship with the private sector...which we need to stay mindful of to help us make better decisions in the future.

[Sharps4590]

I well remember the battle. I also remember the referendum but I can't recall if Cole County, where I then lived, was included in the voting. I was and still am pro-river and a "C". My view has always been the same regardless of the river in question....anyone can build a lake, all that takes is enough money. Only God can build a river. Let the river be.

[Al Agnew]

Thing is, back then you couldn't predict how a politician would fall on issues like this by what party they belonged to. Danforth, who was one of the first MO politicians to oppose the dam, was a Republican. As the State Attorney General, he agreed that the original environmental impact statement was grossly inadequate, and declined to intervene on behalf of the Corps in the Sierra Club lawsuit, and when he ran for the Senate he vocally opposed the dam. Ichord, the district Congressman who was the staunchest supporter of the dam, was a Democrat. Tom Eagleton, the state's other Senator, supported the dam until he read the political winds--as a Democrat. Bond, the Governor, was of course a Republican, and he supported it until he was defeated by Teasdale, who was a Democrat and didn't seem to care much one way or the other.

This was the first real political issue that I ever cared much about. I voted for Danforth, and continued voting for him throughout the rest of his political career. In my opinion he was one of the best and most ethical politicians this state ever produced, even though I didn't agree with him on everything. But he got my vote in the beginning solely because of the Meramec Dam issue.

It would be interesting to see the political take on an issue like this these days. Would the conservatives oppose it because of the cost and the pork barrel aspects? Would the liberals support it as an environmental issue? But the fact is, this wasn't a black and white conservative/liberal issue back then.

[hank franklin]

Al, Danforth is "your Grandpa's conservative" and the kind we need more of. I feel if Meramec Dam was proposed again today it would be Repubs for / Dems against. Repubs would talk about ec dev and Dems would cry foul on environmental grounds. Of course all the environmentalists are wackos so the Repubs would rally to try to crush them. In doing so they would be on the side of the Corps of Engineers and Big Government, the same Corps that blew the Birds Point levee and flooded most all of the middle Missouri River last summer.

This may be (hopefully is) overly simplistic, as it's hard to imagine Repubs supporting the massive land grab that the dam would require. But money talks and if the price was right you never know.

eric1978, I am conservative by nature and politically moderate but have moved right in recent years primarily because of personal dealings with the federal government. It is upside down and out of control and truly I believe an enemy of the people. I am on the side of those who want to quash it. I don't have the time nor energy to debate and discuss. State government (Missouri at least) is generally quite good. The federal government however is a monster. Both parties are responsible for this but only a true conservative vision will correct it. Danforth for president!

[Mitch f]

I'm sure you can plainly see that the leaders and constituents of one of our major parties puts capitalism and convenience above all else, at the peril of all else, including, and especially, conservation.

For the most part, I agree on the conservation part of this statement......but when you say ALL else, I start to question your judgement.

[eric1978]

For the most part, I agree on the conservation part of this statement......but when you say ALL else, I start to question your judgement.

What fun is political debate without a little hyperbole?

[Mitch f]

What fun is political debate without a little hyperbole?

Guilty myself