Ouestion?

[jOrOb]

Sounds like some sort of closed cell foam. Really dense, but still essentially foam.

I hope it is legal, because I use a foam hopper a lot.

Thanks Phil for getting a straight answer.

[jim murphy]

Foam is a legal fly tying material. Evazote, Cross-link, Loco, McFly, open cell, closed cell, stryo, and others are legal fly tying materials. These were all legallized when then new Rules and Regulations came out a couple of years ago, when they had all the controversy and different standards in the Trout Parks.

jim

[vanven]

Is this the pattern?

That's just a sample pic courtesy of hipwader.com.

I am a bit confused by some of the state regulations as well. I was at Montauk a few weeks ago fishing above the dam. There are clear signs that say fly fishing only. Half the fisherman up there were using spinning equipment with Mepps type spinner baits. That is clearly out of my definition of a fly,but it was so common I wasnt going to say anything. I realize you can fish flies from spinning tackle, but since when is a spinner bait a fly?

-J

[Terry Beeson]

What constitutes/defines a "fly?" A good debate there.

Actually, spinners on flies was very popular in the early to mid 1900s on fly tackle. It's gaining popularity again as well.

In fact, did I not read somewhere that Mepp's spinners were actually first developed for fly tackle?

[Wayne SW/MO]

Foam is plastic, so it has to go beyond that. It seems that MDC is dancing around a concept that if you create a fly using materials made of plastic its legal, if its premolded it isn't. Then there's the good old plastic Rapala????

Rubber legs, rubber worms?

I don't think they met the criteria of having fly fishermen attempt to tear the regulations apart before they implemented them, or they didn't listen.

[twosets]

Hey Vanven

I think we are talking about 2 different regs here.

At the trout parks, an artificial with hair or other material is a fly (ie brown wolly and spinner, brassie).

Those spinners you saw may have had some fly component to them.

For taney in the restricted area, a rapella is cool, a plastic worm is NOT.

Rubber legs on a foam body at taney?

That is the question here.

George

[2sheds]

Spinner = Fly ? Twosets is almost correct. A Mepps or Rooster-Tail like spinner fits the definition of a fly ONLY if its the single point hook variety. They sell some like that, or you can clip your treble hooks down to a solo-hook. These can therefore be used in "fly-only" areas.

See MDC Wildlife Code: 3 CSR 10-20.805 Definitions.

(22) Flies, lures and baits:

{A} Natural and scented baits - A natural fish food such as bait fish, crayfish, frogs permitted as bait, grubs, insects, larvae, worms, salmon eggs, cheese, corn and other food substances not containing any ingredient to stupefy, injure or kill fish. Does not include flies or artificial lures. Includes dough bait, putty or paste-type bait, any substance designed to attract fish by taste or smell and any fly, lure or bait containing or used with such substances.

{B} Soft plastic bait (unscented)- Synthetic eggs, synthetic worms, synthetic grubs and soft plastic lures.

{C} Artificial lure - A lure constructed of any material excluding soft plastic bait and natural and scented bait as defined in {A} or {B} above.

{D} Fly - An artificial lure constructed on a single-point hook, using any material except soft plastic bait and natural and scented bait as defined in {A} or {B} above, that is tied, glued or otherwise permanently attached.

Concerning Foam Bugs - It all comes down to how soft is SOFT. Artificial lures or flies made from non-scented hard plastic are permitted in upper Taneycomo. Molded rapellas are obviously hard plastic. Phil has agreed to investigate the judgement call involving foam. I would think the MDC ruling should be based on how trout attack that particular material and the likelihood of deep ingestion (mortality) versus a mouth take and quick spit out like the trout do when midgelover isn't managing her slack.

A point of demarcation could be established based on whether the body of the item (bait/lure/fly) remains rigid (versus conforms) when laid across a knife edge or similar shape. If the body distorts under its own weight, then its "soft". If the body remains in its free-form shape, then its "hard enough" to pass muster.

PS - My review of the MDC Wildlife Code also indicates that falconry is also subject to restrictions. Refer to 3 CSR 10-6.535.

{2} Methods: Pole and line, trotline, throwline, limb line, bank line, jug line and falconry, except as further restricted in this rule.

{A} Only flies and artificial lures may be used when fishing on the waters listed in subsections {4}{C} and {E} of this rule ... <snip> .

{4E} ... Lake Taneycomo from the closed zone seven hundred sixty feet (760’) below Table Rock Dam to the mouth of Fall Creek."

[jim murphy]

Wayne,

Thanks for the laugh. It is great to be a fly fisher, and have these special twisted benefits. Too bad, the MDC did not include plastic explosives for a legal fly tying material. Just think how many fish one could take out with a size 14 Primacord Worm.

But then again, looking at this from your point of view, fly fishers are the ones really getting stiffed. There are many more miles of trout waters that can be fish without any fly/lure restrictions. Taneycomo is a prime example; it is approximately 23 miles long and has approximately 20 miles of no bait/lure restrictions and one can gig suckers in that area as well. AT Bennett Springs, you can not even flyfish in Zone 3, during the regular season.

The BOTTOM LINE is these Definitions, Rules and Regulations were created for the benefit of the fishery,for everyone, not just fly anglers. If you have not noticed, since the Trophy Management Area was established, with the current lure/bait restrictions, on the upper end of Taneycomo, the fishery has improved tremendously, especially in the size and quality of the fish. The mortality rate of fish caught and released has decreased tremendously because of the bait/lure restriction. With these Definitions, Rules and Regulations in place, I hope to see it some day like it was back in the 70's, with the average size fish about 18" to 20" and consistant catches of trophy fish in the 5# plus class. Unfortunately, the MDC probally won't stock Kokanee Salmon or Steelhead again for that oddity catch.

jim

[Wayne SW/MO]

I think they would have been ahead if they had simply said anything containing animal fats, oils, or a synthetic equivalent will be considered bait.

Flys could be anything on a single hook that have materials glued or tied and are under a certain weight.

Artificial, anything made to resemble bait that doesn't fit the description of bait.

[gizzardshad]

Are you guys serious?? If you are gonna keep a guy from fishing with a fly that has a little foam on it, then why are you allowing people to stand shoulder to shoulder and snag fish in the outlets all day?? We need to be realistic here. While Tany has become one of the best trout fisheries in the country, thanks to people like you, its a long way from being the purists dream that you are making it out to be. Maybe we should focus on things that really hurt the fish and not scrutinize every fly on the water.