World Class Fishing

[Feathers and Fins]

Yes we could but it would take work on the streams at the level TU does to enhance them for Smallies, Then it would take the states putting heavier restriction on size and bag limits. I think it could be possible and probable for the Ozark states to produce monster smallies both lakes and streams and would love to see it. I love them brown fish they are such bulldogs.

[Greasy B]

Yes, some of the differences in latitude, water quality and habitat will always prevent the Ozarks from comparing to northern rivers but when our best streams are filled with 12-13 inch fish and northern rivers are filled 16-18 inch fish its obvious our streams are not even close to their potential.

Seems simple to me:

Empty rivers

+ Modern regulations

= Quality Fish

When you add law abiding citizens to the equation you get rivers that meet their true potential.

[Mitch f]

Couldn't have said it any better!!

[Al Agnew]

The sad fact is that we don't have a good "baseline" for what the Ozark streams are capable of producing. By the time MDC did their first study, back in the 1960s before the advent of the present 6 fish 12 inch limit, the stream smallmouth populations were already depressed. All the catch and keep pressure, poaching, gigging, and on the larger streams just plain heavy fishing pressure including tournaments, has kept the smallmouth populations at pretty much the same levels they became a few years after the present limits were established (they did improve with the establishment of those limits).

There are glimmers here and there, though. The stream I've posted about without naming several times, marginally floatable, light pressure, and at least some of what pressure there is consists of catch and release anglers, has been capable of producing 100-150 fish days with 5-15 over 17 inches and the occasional 20+. It's far from a really fertile stream, and it's small. But just a little more pressure, like it appears to have gotten the last couple of years, and the fishing declines. I believe that streams like the middle Meramec, middle Gasconade, and middle to lower Current, are capable of producing the type of fishery where there's a good chance of catching several 18 inch plus fish per day and a real chance of catching 20-22 inch fish...IF the pressure could e lightened, the big fish protected, and the illegal gigging stopped. But the original post point about pressure is well-taken. It's very possible that, given the size of these streams, more big fish would bring more pressure, even out of state pressure, and declining fisheries again.

The other sad fact is that most or all those other states that have true world class smallmouth fishing not only don't have the catch and keep smallmouth mentality among locals that we do here, but they also don't have a gigging tradition. Whether or not spearing or gigging is illegal in those other states, it's not practiced. I can't stress it enough...the catch and keep big fish mentality in the Ozarks, and the illegal gigging of BIG smallmouth, are in my opinion the two biggest problems we have. Without them, I truly believe that we could have 3 or 4 times the number of 18 inch plus smallmouth we have.

I've given this a lot of thought for some reason in the last year or so...it's nice to visit those other places and catch big fish in numbers. But my attitude is changing a bit from what it once was. For me, the perfect smallmouth fishery is one where you catch lots of fish with a decent average size, a few over 18 inches, and you know you have a shot at a couple of 20 plus inchers with a 22 incher an outside possibility. That makes those 20 inchers still something special. I'm finding more and more that when you catch "cookie-cutter" fish, no matter what size they are, it gets a little boring after a while. I love the numbers, and I love the variety of sizes of fish we have in the Ozarks...but I'd like to have a BETTER chance of catching a big one every time I go out, and I'd like the average size to be closer to 14-15 inches instead of the 10-12 inches it is now. How do you get there? I believe you put a 12-18 or 14-20 inch slot on, and you somehow cut down on the illegal activities.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Another sad fact is that even in the SBBMSA's, which been be in exsitance since 1991, over 20 years now, 20 inchers are not as common as was hoped for. We have discussed before that when you go back and look at the records and reports and such from the early 1900's through the '50's and '60's, it was a almost a cause for celebration when someone got one in the 20+ range. Dablemont, who spent many a year on the rivers, talks how hard it has always been to catch one the elite monters.

But I am all for tighter regs on the rivers. Lets get our heads together off the forum and get some direction and get the ball rolling. Or we can just keep complaing as we have done for years.

[SmallyWally]

There are so many great ideas out there to enhance the Smallmouth experience, BUT it all comes down to the state making the regulations. South Dakota has the pheasants and Arkansas has the ducks and northern waters have the walleye and Muskie. These bring a lot of tourism dollars to those states, and considering what this country is going thru financially, how about thinking in that direction. Also, would keep anyone from taking out to many or even illegal to keep a SM. Plenty of other tasty fish in the rivers and streams. I know the pressure could increase but, IF the state did it correctly, on even just a few waterways, well....just another thought added.

[ozark trout fisher]

One thing that I would like to correct about this is we do have "world class" smallmouth fishing here in every way that matters to me. I've fished plenty of places with bigger fish (places where 17-19 inchers barely warrant a nod) but I'd take an Ozark stream and their smaller fish over any of them. The grass ain't always greener on the other side of the fence....LOL

You all know I'm very much in support of tighter regs, but I still think that bears saying. We have it really, really good here. Otherwise I'm in agreement with most everything that's been posted here.

[Wayne SW/MO]

I think it really comes down to water depth and harvest. I don't think Missouri has either. Too many streams are filled in with gravel from too much love and there isn't a lot of attention paid to seasons, limits, or length limits.

[LarrySTL]

Somebody mentioned governmental finances as a possible factor; along that line I saw a saltwater fishing magazine while waiting in a doctors office this week and it said that Florida has made all tarpon and bonefish mandatory release except for fish big enough to potentially be a world or state record ( I forget which

Also one of the Carolinas, South I think, did something very similar about tarpon. Both states apparently were motivated by the economic/tourism value of the really big fish. Yes, I realize we have MDC to deal with, but maybe its a thought.

[go4ducks2]

Nothing will ever change if Mo DNR can't get some money for more Conservation Police for enforcement of the regulations that we have.

I fish and hunt way more than the average Joe and I have only been stopped/checked maybe 5 times in the last 10 years that

I can think of. Don't know how many CP's that Missouri has, but it is NOT enough.

I was down at Taneycomo just 2 weeks ago and got up early, walked down to the dock where I was staying and some guy is walking

to the fish cleaning station with about 10 trout.....I said " little over the limit aren't you?" he said...."yea, maybe a few" and laughed.

Whatta ya do in that situation, by the time I call Poacher hotline and somebody gets there, this guy is gone.