Da Man. New Restrictions In The Onsr Being Mulled Over.

[SpoonDog]

ONSR is a frickin park, you expect to see people there. It's like going to Montauk expecting to experience a Limestone Spring Branch experience. I don't go there to get away, I go there for gatherings. I really never get excited about "getting away" when I plan a trip to the ONSR. Fishing sucks during the summer, crowds keep the fish skeered. Current River is better below the ONSR on the Current and less crowded with floaters. Upper Jacks is great too, most liveries will not launch boats up there because of low flows, but you can still do private floats. If I want getaway fishing trip, I will go 11PT or some other remote stream.

It is a public park that does not need more restrictions. Unless they want to return it to a wilderness, restrict all access, limit the amount of people on it, and tear out all of the improvements, then just leave it alone. If they do restrict it, then all of the boneheads you all are bitchin about will overflow into the nice streams.

Quit wasting my tax dollars pondering what to do.

I guess I don't understand the rationale...your biggest complaint seems that ONSR is overcrowded, overdeveloped, and overused...yet you don't want the NPS making changes which could fix that problem.

Most Ozark streams have canoe liveries- if folks wanted to be fighting the jetboats around Van Buren and Doniphan, if they wanted to be floating the Black, the St. Francois, the Big, the Meramec, Big Piney or Gasconade....there's nothing stopping them from doing it now. More than a million visitors a year choose to experience ONSR. Regardless of how you personally feel about it, they value that resource. Asking them for input on how the resource they value is managed seems like a no-brainer to me, and about as democratic as the process can possibly be.

[Guest]

deleted

[jdmidwest]

The current management draws the crowds to the stream, that is where I would prefer them. Keep them concentrated on streams like the Current, Huzzah, Coutois, and the Meramec and off the other streams.

I don't want to see more horses. I don't want to see less campsites or access points.I don't really care that they are overcrowded, like I said, I don't go there for peaceful alone time.

30 years ago, you could go over and have a wilder experience in that area. But, few people floated to party, camped to be camping, and it was less of a park and more of a river.

No matter what they do, they will not stop the herds of people that flock there now, so just leave it alone and quit wasting money trying to figure it out every few years.

[joeD]

The only problem with Ozark streams, any stream, pick one, is the local population who live by it, use it, abuse it, and could care less about what YOU think. Same as it ever was.

All this barking about legislation, and the park service, and liveries, and the government and what the government may or may not do is just that. Barking dogs. About nothing.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

Our smallmouth streams suck because of a pervasive and ingrained mentality among a small subset of anglers and population who live, and have lived, by these streams, and have demonstrated a predictable, yet self defeating, way of treating their environment, and themselves, in a selfish and destructive way that no government or do-gooder outsider will change.

We think of it as preserving the environment and making our natural resources available to everyone, with rules and regulations to manage our demand.

They don't. They come from a long history, back to the hinterlands of Ireland and Scotland under the heavy foot of English monarchy from ages ago. Government was (and is) to be distrusted and opposed at any and every turn. This continues today.

And I do mean "they."

[Gavin]

I don't get your rationale JD...I spend a lot of time on the Current in the winter time. You rarely see a soul. You would be appalled at number of UA access points, rutted horse trail, ATV, & 4x4 two tracks between the designated access points. They are hard to spot when the leaves are out, but they stick out like a syphilitic pecker at a short arm inspection during the winter time. I'm sick of seeing new UA two tracks & horse crossings. Close them off. There are plenty of designated access points...close the others.

[Mitch f]

The only problem with Ozark streams, any stream, pick one, is the local population who live by it, use it, abuse it, and could care less about what YOU think. Same as it ever was.

All this barking about legislation, and the park service, and liveries, and the government and what the government may or may not do is just that. Barking dogs. About nothing.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

Our smallmouth streams suck because of a pervasive and ingrained mentality among a small subset of anglers and population who live, and have lived, by these streams, and have demonstrated a predictable, yet self defeating, way of treating their environment, and themselves, in a selfish and destructive way that no government or do-gooder outsider will change.

We think of it as preserving the environment and making our natural resources available to everyone, with rules and regulations to manage our demand.

They don't. They come from a long history, back to the hinterlands of Ireland and Scotland under the heavy foot of English monarchy from ages ago. Government was (and is) to be distrusted and opposed at any and every turn. This continues today.

And I do mean "they."

Agree 100% ......only problem is, I'm Scotch Irish

[joeD]

Both are are great whiskeys! I wouldn't mixem on a regular basis though.

Sorry about your heritage though. HAH. Just kidding. I've no room to talk. Pure Ukrainian and Irish. Drinking and telling stories, but in a sad, defeatist way. YAY parents!

Gavin: My rationale, as always, is that rules are for rule followers. Us. But Us isn't what the problems are when it comes to Ozark streams. We cannot legislate human behavior without immediate and realistic consequence. Which ain't happening. So, bark bark bark bark...

[SpoonDog]

The current management draws the crowds to the stream, that is where I would prefer them. Keep them concentrated on streams like the Current, Huzzah, Coutois, and the Meramec and off the other streams.

I don't want to see more horses. I don't want to see less campsites or access points.I don't really care that they are overcrowded, like I said, I don't go there for peaceful alone time.

30 years ago, you could go over and have a wilder experience in that area. But, few people floated to party, camped to be camping, and it was less of a park and more of a river.

No matter what they do, they will not stop the herds of people that flock there now, so just leave it alone and quit wasting money trying to figure it out every few years.

I understand what you're saying, but that isn't the point of the Riverways. The Park exists to manage the Current and Jacks Fork- and only those two rivers. They're legally obligated to manage the Current and Jacks Fork for the protection of the Current and Jacks Fork- not for the protection of the Black, St. Francois, or any other Ozark stream. If meeting those obligations means reducing the number of users- that's what they have to do. And if reducing users on ONSR adds users to other streams- that's outside the Park's jurisdiction and beyond their mandate. It simply is not their concern.

Besides, I'm sure there are liveries on other Ozark streams which wouldn't mind seeing a few more paddlers during the float season. And many of our streams outside federal jurisdiction could use all the additional advocates they can get.

[hank franklin]

I just spent some more time reading the actual plan. I think every person who posted in this thread would agree in general with the intent behind Alternatives A and B.

If they would actually read it.

The more I read it the more I like Alternative A actually. I think it is unrealistic but I like the vision behind it.

I think it's helpful that the only alternative that does not close unauthorized roads is "no action." Even Alt C would close the UA roads. It seems at minimum the NPS is serious about doing something about this. As other posters have said, the UA roads have really damaged the river corridor.

[joeD]

Alternatives? A and B? General intent? Vision?

Good grief. Our government has no intent to do ANYTHING, ANYTIME, soon, to ameliorate ANY perceived problem with the ONSR.

We don't want to offend the hoosiers who live there. There is no political will to influence representatives from those areas, for fear of being labeled, paradoxically, an "elitist,"

( God forgive anybody who has earned the "elite" status. After all, we wouldn't someone who is "elite" flying our airplanes. Or an "elite" military group raiding a terrorist compound. Or an "elite" group of research doctors trying to find a cure for modern diseases).

Yes my brothers, "elite" is a curse word in many scenarios. Instead, I think our government should decide.

One can't accuse them of being elite.