Onsr Comments

[tanvat]

I got into a discussion w/ a fairly good sized group and a guy with a Mo. Trappers Assn. shirt was going on and on about roads and stating there except "maintenance." I asked him point blank if it was his position that there is not one more yard of roads along the river now than there was years ago and he said....drumroll...."No." You could show this guy and the others in the room satellite photos, a timeline of photos, all the definitive, irrefutable proof you want and then they'll just say "no" and then talk about the goverment wanting to move everybody to the "big cities so they can control us." Or, my favorite, they guy talking about how jet boats are actually great for the rivers because "they ride up high" and how in Florida they want jet boats so the "mantees don't get run over" and on and on. I went through specific examples and, not surprisingly, most every one of the local "experts" had little idea what I was talking about. I mentioned the dramatic expansion in the size of the road to the "Pothole" or "jumping rock" a couple miles above Pulltite and one guy said "there's always been a road to Pulltite." When I explained the spot, I got a blank stare and a denial of what I could go down and show him this afternoon. I think there are a few folks down there who really do know the river and the surrouding landscape but I think there are LOT who think they do but really don't for the simple reason that almost all of their experience is flying up and down in a boat or ATV.

[awhuber]

The road @ flying is an old ford thats goes over to the old school house. Ive talked with folks who taught there and at parker school house. ah what it must have been like to attend those schools.

That ford is being addressed in the flying w plan, which seems to be dropped at the momment. that camp site is listed as a drive in spot.

[ColdWaterFshr]

The road @ flying is an old ford thats goes over to the old school house. Ive talked with folks who taught there and at parker school house. ah what it must have been like to attend those schools.

its an "old" ford? Does the guy in the jeep know this?

[awhuber]

I got into a discussion w/ a fairly good sized group and a guy with a Mo. Trappers Assn. shirt was going on and on about roads and stating there except "maintenance." I asked him point blank if it was his position that there is not one more yard of roads along the river now than there was years ago and he said....drumroll...."No." You could show this guy and the others in the room satellite photos, a timeline of photos, all the definitive, irrefutable proof you want and then they'll just say "no" and then talk about the goverment wanting to move everybody to the "big cities so they can control us." Or, my favorite, they guy talking about how jet boats are actually great for the rivers because "they ride up high" and how in Florida they want jet boats so the "mantees don't get run over" and on and on. I went through specific examples and, not surprisingly, most every one of the local "experts" had little idea what I was talking about. I mentioned the dramatic expansion in the size of the road to the "Pothole" or "jumping rock" a couple miles above Pulltite and one guy said "there's always been a road to Pulltite." When I explained the spot, I got a blank stare and a denial of what I could go down and show him this afternoon. I think there are a few folks down there who really do know the river and the surrouding landscape but I think there are LOT who think they do but really don't for the simple reason that almost all of their experience is flying up and down in a boat or ATV.

The jumping rock is, if we are talking about the same place, is Walter Lipps. It is accessed by Shannon county rd. That rd is on a map i have here from 1946.

[awhuber]

its an "old" ford? Does the guy in the jeep know this?

Ha ha those jeep guys are sensitive, too. I might have to edit that comment.

[ColdWaterFshr]

is it legal to ford the river like that?

[Smalliebigs]

Is this a county road?

Is the road that goes along the river from Cedargrove up to Parker -- is that a county road? The whole area around Cedargrove might as well be classified as an ATV park.

I don't have any problem with ATV's on county roads, but when you see them on gravel bars and in the river and on the spaghetti-bowl network of trails that seem to be all over the place now--- that makes me crazy. And people camping at Tan Vat and big creek and driving just as far as their vehicle will take them. Its out of hand, don't you think?

And there's no good reason for jet boats above Akers in my opinion. Or even above Pulltite. seasonal or not.

That's disgraceful Andrew.....the same dung happened on the Black River and the yahoos just about rendered the river useless back in the 80's. Now if they catch you in the stream bed it's $1000 fine per tire that touches. I'm with Alex Hietman on this, enforce the laws you have very harshly and it will stop.....I hate the idea of the Feds owning the Current River simply because they don't do dung to enforce anything right now.....what makes any Sierra Club Audubon Society member think any thing will change because you simply designate something??? I went to Powder Valley last night as it is a 30 second hike thru my woods to get there. I don't think jets should go above Twin Rivers.....I think it should be un motorized boats only from Montauk to Twin Rivers.....I wish I would have seen you and Gavin, Andrew and been able to go get some beers with you guys.....oh well .....Mitch Cumstien want's to do a float with Paul Dallas this year real bad.....hopefully youth sports hasn't wiped Paul off the map???

[tanvat]

awhuber, I take your word on the 1946 county road map. County roads were mentioned over and over last night. But the point about county roads misses the point. The issue is not whether the river is accessed from a county road, the issue is how the river is accessed from a county road. If a real, legal county road runs right to the river, that is one thing. I assume one could then legally access the river from that road. It is entirely another thing to that I can legally access the river from a county road that runs, say, 100 yards from the river, by simply driving my ATV, then my jeep and then a schoolbus down there right through the woods and riparian areas. Of course, in one sense I accessed the river from a county road, but that does not mean the access is legal or should continue. You can't validate the demonstrated proliferation of informal "roads" or spurs or whatever you want to call them that emanate from otherwise legal roads.

Re the spot above Pulltite, my observation over the last 15 years is that the size of the road back there has increased dramatically - what was once a tight spot is now a spot where people launch boats; there is an actual circle drive cut through the woods just out the back of the gravel bar. Even if there is a legal road to near that spot, it does not follow that people should be permitted to drive all around and lauch boats there.

[tanvat]

Smalliebigs, is it really so bad that the feds run the River? If they did not, it'd be like the Meramec or worse - unlimited everything and summer homes all up and down the river. One of the ultimate ironies is that the locals decry being "locked out" b/c they may not be able to drive to the river at over 100 points while overlooking the fact that if the land around the river was privately owned, they'd truly be locked out. No way private landowners would allow unfettered ATV use to and from the river; some body would get shot.

[awhuber]

awhuber, I take your word on the 1946 county road map. County roads were mentioned over and over last night. But the point about county roads misses the point. The issue is not whether the river is accessed from a county road, the issue is how the river is accessed from a county road. If a real, legal county road runs right to the river, that is one thing. I assume one could then legally access the river from that road. It is entirely another thing to that I can legally access the river from a county road that runs, say, 100 yards from the river, by simply driving my ATV, then my jeep and then a schoolbus down there right through the woods and riparian areas. Of course, in one sense I accessed the river from a county road, but that does not mean the access is legal or should continue. You can't validate the demonstrated proliferation of informal "roads" or spurs or whatever you want to call them that emanate from otherwise legal roads.

Re the spot above Pulltite, my observation over the last 15 years is that the size of the road back there has increased dramatically - what was once a tight spot is now a spot where people launch boats; there is an actual circle drive cut through the woods just out the back of the gravel bar. Even if there is a legal road to near that spot, it does not follow that people should be permitted to drive all around and lauch boats there.

I wont put the co rd number up here but shannon county maitains right to the river there. I am sure , tv, if we met we would find more common ground than not. I find it humorous that somehow some new rules will fix every thing when they dont follow the current plan.