MDC Meets the MSA in St. Louis on Tuesday May 19th

[ozark trout fisher]

wow.....I have seen this time and time again.......I have a moral dilemma right now as a neighbor of my Dad's in Washington County went out last weekend with his son on the upper Big river....this is gonna hurt Al...from Cherokee to Blackwell. Anyway they brought back 4 Smallies in a cooler and showed my dad. Between the four fish the smallest was 18 inches and they were fishing with minnows that they caught in a minnow trap. Both of these guys and my dad didn't even realize they kept them out of season. My dad calls me bragging and I go off the handle and my dad starts freaking knowing me and knowing I will turn them in. My dad is soo worried I am gonna ruin his relationship with his neighbor and my dad is scared of this guy a little. I haven't done anything yet but, this is all too common in Missouri and this only an example of something that was exposed only because they were ignorant to the regulations. There are 100's of similar situations like this, possibly 1000's happening every year in Missouri. My dad is 74 and he knows better but, just forgot about the season on smallies.....and this coming from a dude who used pound it in my head to let the fish on the rivers spawn and then go nail them over and over......he sooo worried about whether or not I am calling authorities on his neighbors or will I go and have an educational conversation with them.

It is what it is.......fighting a loosing battle is lame to me.....OTF you are right I am not gonna slaughter a shiot load of big smallies this year but, if I did and others I know who catch them real good did the same you would most definitely see a difference in certain watersheds.

Your story reminds me of certain members of my family. There are several people in my extended family that I've told simply to not tell me about their fishing/hunting expeditions...because if they do I'm gonna have to turn them in. Or rather, I won't have to. I'll want to.

You can only listen to that kind of bragging (even by family/close friends) before you have to act. I can come around to forgiving the ignorant ones if they change once they understand the situation. It's the ones who are proud of bending/breaking the rules and getting away with it that make my blood boil. And there are more like that than you think.

[Dan Kreher]

Enforcement is a huge issue with respect all game and fish laws in MO. Far too few agents to do anything close to an adequate job. The lack of enforcement presence on our streams has been a constant refrain from conservation minded anglers for as long as I can remember. I doubt that is going to change given the current budgetary environment with respect to the MDC. Take down info and call operation game thief is about all you can do unfortunately -- or release someone's illegally caught fish from their unattended stringer and then paddle like hell.

As far as education goes, that is another matter entirely. The closed season has been in place since 1965 (the year after I was born) and was once common knowledge for anglers. But with little informational signage to remind them of the stream regulations placed at access points/tackle shops/etc. it is easy for fishermen to forget that such a law exists. Not sure if the guys who kept the big smallies on Big River were absent-minded or completely unaware that they were breaking the law -- it sounds like the latter. Regardless, we need much better signage at public access points, canoe outfitters and riverside campgrounds on exactly what the rules are. Just something simple rather than that long, tattered, paper=based sheet you sometimes find on a wooden sign board. Lots of northern states have closed seasons on bass, but MO is the state farthest South to have one in place.

The MDC says they're working on updated signage as well -- which I'm sure they are -- but it's not keeping anyone legal at the present time. MSA's own efforts with our Outfitter Signs distributed to canoe liveries starting back in 2012 do include general statewide stream regs, closed season, etc. So those can serve as reminders for folks using an outfitter at least.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse but citizens can gently remind would-be violators of the law if they feel so compelled. I know that can be a touchy subject when you're out in the field and dealing with strangers . . . or scary neighbors.

[Smallieguy87]

wow.....I have seen this time and time again.......I have a moral dilemma right now as a neighbor of my Dad's in Washington County went out last weekend with his son on the upper Big river....this is gonna hurt Al...from Cherokee to Blackwell. Anyway they brought back 4 Smallies in a cooler and showed my dad. Between the four fish the smallest was 18 inches and they were fishing with minnows that they caught in a minnow trap. Both of these guys and my dad didn't even realize they kept them out of season. My dad calls me bragging and I go off the handle and my dad starts freaking knowing me and knowing I will turn them in. My dad is soo worried I am gonna ruin his relationship with his neighbor and my dad is scared of this guy a little. I haven't done anything yet but, this is all too common in Missouri and this only an example of something that was exposed only because they were ignorant to the regulations. There are 100's of similar situations like this, possibly 1000's happening every year in Missouri. My dad is 74 and he knows better but, just forgot about the season on smallies.....and this coming from a dude who used pound it in my head to let the fish on the rivers spawn and then go nail them over and over......he sooo worried about whether or not I am calling authorities on his neighbors or will I go and have an educational conversation with them.

It is what it is.......fighting a loosing battle is lame to me.....OTF you are right I am not gonna slaughter a shiot load of big smallies this year but, if I did and others I know who catch them real good did the same you would most definitely see a difference in certain watersheds.

That's a tough situation man. I keep the operation game thief number in my cell which is with me every time i go out. I've had to educate close family about the seasons and creel limits....if they don't comply they absolutely do not fish with me nor will i ever tell them where i fish. I feel passionate enough about it that i've had that talk with my father and for the longest time i refused to fish with him. I still wont unless it's some local pond where it doesn't hurt to put a small dent in the panfish population. Wonder who these neighbors are? I maybe familiar with them..you'll have to pm smalliebigs.

[Al Agnew]

You know what ticks me off most about those guys keeping those fish on Big River? They not only were keeping them illegally because the season wasn't open, but they were over their limit even if it HAD been open. The one fish 15 inch limit over most of Big River, including that stretch, has to be one the least known and poorest publicized special management things in the state. I agree that lots and lots of signage at all accesses and all canoe liveries is needed, along with lots more enforcement.

[Dan Kreher]

Hell, even I totally forgot that additional violation of the law in that particular situation as well. Just goes to show you that such special regs need to be more widely publicized.

[Smallieguy87]

More signage is a great idea and one that I don't think would cost a great deal of money. Anything that will educate other anglers on the laws and creel limits is great not to mention that it may give the impression that things are being enforced more frequently in the area and dissuade them from keeping what they shouldn't.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Hell, even I totally forgot that additional violation of the law in that particular situation as well. Just goes to show you that such special regs need to be more widely publicized.

That is one of the main reasons the MDC is looking to change regulations on the rivers for bass fishing. They want to simplify the rules so that everyone can understand them. Currently they are very complicated, especially with all the SBBSMA sections.

[Dan Kreher]

I find that C&R anglers usually aren't too worried about the particular regs on a section as far as their fishing goes -- since no smallies are being harvested anyway. But the regs, whatever they are, do need to be better communicated by the MDC so that harvest-oriented fishermen are aware of what the limits are. I know that is one of the ongoing objectives of the MDC with regards to signage standardization and access posting plans.

As far as complicated goes, Missouri's fishing regulations are relatively simple compared to many states -- particularly those in the northeast and northwest which have a number of both cold and warmwater fisheries as well as maritime waters/species to deal with. It would make your head spin to read their regs chart. Not sure if their signage is any better but I imagine it would need to be.

[Chief Grey Bear]

I find that C&R anglers usually aren't too worried about the particular regs on a section as far as their fishing goes -- since no smallies are being harvested anyway.

That's kind of a no brainer ain't it? But not everyone is C&R.

I'll agree that the regulations can be simple to follow, since we don't have any maritime rules, but who bass fishes there anyway, if you know where you are. Meaning you can float into a SBBSMA unknowingly. I guess they could erect billboards along the river like they do the Interstate.

[Chief Grey Bear]

And is it a good idea for the MSA to advertise good smallmouth streams to fatten the bank account?