A Song of Ice and Fire - spoilers

[Lancer09]

Also it seems a blatant disregard to do absolutely nothing with Lady Stoneheart in the show.

[Ham]

I don't know how Jon survives, I just know he has to survive. Just like I never worry about Rick in The Walking Dead. No Rick = No Show.

[Feathers and Fins]

Really, he was a moron. I'm surprised he could get that figured out. Why would he want to have Bran killed? Just being cruel, again?

It is all about the Dagger. The dagger was originally Little fingers but he lost it to a bet to King Robert. Little finger used his knowledge of this to make it look like he lost it to Tyrion. But when Cat and Tyrion were on the way to the Vale Tyrion told Cat he NEVER bets against family. At that point she knew it was not him.

So could it have been Little Finger? No as the Dagger was kept with Roberts stuff and Little Finger could not get to it. So what about Jamie and Cersie? Well they had the conversation and both denied it to each other and they wouldn’t lie to each other if anything they were completely honest with each other. Probably the only person Cersie will not lie to is Jamie.

But the best evidence is at Joffreys wedding when he said he is no stranger to Valaryain Steel and Tyrion makes the comment about THE Dagger in a veiled way and it sets Joffrey off. Tyrion had figured it out.

Why did Joffrey do it. Robert had made an offhand comment that he knew Bran would be a cripple and it was better to be dead than a cripple and Joffrey heard this and would do it to impress his father.

[Feathers and Fins]

I aint touching R+L till after this weekend then I will. Made a promise to myself I will not fire off spoilers till HBO caught up with the books. But I have a theory and the evidence to back it. Though I may be wrong Ive been working on it a long time and it keeps getting stronger and stronger.

For Jon, All the Starks children are capable of warging, so the theory he wargs to Ghost makes most sense. Then he will be brought back by someone. I am not worried about him as there is POV chapters already known in the next book and his contract extended to S7. Granted Martin could kill him off at any time though for fun.

[Ham]

Joffrey was such a moron though. So much crap started because of his stupidity and cruelty, but you've got to have a vehicle for the drama I suppose.

It just doesn't make sense to me why Joffrey would want to have Bran killed. I thought thru lots of ideas and None of them really make sense to me, but he was Cerseis kid after all.

[Ham]

Jon warging into a dragon would be interesting.

[Feathers and Fins]

Na he wont Warg to a Dragon.

GRRM writes about struggles and that would be way to easy with where Jon's storyline has been. But GRRM loves to use Dreams and Prophecy and they are as if not more important to his writings than anything. But he also warns you have to be careful with them.

If you can align a "green dream" up with a known fact it proves it to be true but interpreting one before it happens is difficult. Probably the best is Brans dreams we know he has them and they come true. This sets up a very interesting situation when it comes to Jon. If you are a Book Reader, Bran has the dream of Jon: Finally he looked North. He saw the Wall shining like a blue crystal, and his brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled him.

Then the Three Eyed Raven told him: Now you know, the crow whispered as it sat on his shoulder. Now you know why you must live.

"Why?" Bran said, not understanding, falling, falling. Because winter is coming.

This clearly shows Jon is dead. And knowing Brans dreams come true we must assume it as well. This is the one area that throws many off as it is possible Jon could be brought back to life by one of several ways thus releasing him from his Vows and allowing for him to Become the Man as Maester Aemon said to him. The other thought is he is just simply dead and Martin is done with him and now shifts all the importance to BRAN.

[Lancer09]

With the green dream I think that there is reason to believe that for some point Bran could be the placeholder for Jon's body while he is warged into Ghost. Giving his Body time to heal, He hasn't die, and there is a living soul in his body until it is strong enough for Jon to take back over.

I don't think he will just show up in some other way or body though, otherwise it diminishes who he is I think and no one will believe him, or support him if he says who he is while occupying some other dead guys body.

[Feathers and Fins]

Lance you have no idea how bad I want to say my theory on Jon. I may post my entire theory Before Sunday simply because of the show doing so much not in the books and they may reveal it Sunday. One of the Big things I hate about HBO doing it before the books are done is it spoils the Mystery. I like how other shows have diverged from the books you can see why and how come but this one there is no reasoning to see.

[Lancer09]

I think it's pretty much just you, Ham, and I posting in this thread seriously.

Lets see it!

I don't like that HBO has seemingly made some characters expendable JonCon, Jojen Reed, and others who've died in the show can't really play a large part in the books anymore can they without completely and totally going off track.