A Song of Ice and Fire - spoilers

[Feathers and Fins]

Ya what the hell HBO has already done enough damage to a lot of theory and plot lines and the description for Sunday Night is out so might as well. Its a long read but I will post it.

[Feathers and Fins]

Game of Thrones is ongoing with many mysteries involved, to me that is part of the fun. I have held off throwing too much out there about it but at this time with the show outrunning the books I don’t think anything I can say beyond this point is a spoiler as no one knows what will come. So Now I am going to put out some of my “Theories” about where the show and books are going. I will try to use facts as we know them when possible and also just theories to where it will go. I am just curious how close I might be in the end.

Enjoy the read and feel free to comment as to what you think might happen.

First one of the most important events for Game of Thrones show viewers is to understand there was a tournament held just prior to Roberts Rebellion, known as the Tournament at Harrenhal. This tournament actually set in motion many things that triggered the Rebellion. Much of what I believe is based off events that happened there and the consequences.

To set things right it was Not Rhaegar taking Lyanna that set off the Rebellion but The Mad King Killing the Starks then ordering John Aaron to Kill his two wards Ned and Robert that started the rebellion.

Daenerys

Daenerys; Parents will end up being a massive shock R+L= D ! Yes I believe after looking at a lot of evidence that Daenerys parents are actually Rhaegar and Lyanna.

To understand this you have to be a book reader there is many dreams and prophecies they have conveniently left out of the show. So I am going to touch on them here.

Daenerys Dream: “First: Her thighs were slick with blood. She closed her eyes and whimpered. As if in answer, there was a hideous ripping sound and the crackling of some great fire.

I believe this to be a dream of her birth which is backed up by Ned’s description; Ned upon finding Lyanna in the bed of blood after the Kings Guard was defeated at the Tower of Joy. Lyanna had a given birth she was covered in blood, she whimpered for Ned during the battle then when asking Ned to keep a promise. The ripping sounds were Ned tearing down the Tower of Joy and the smell of fire would be Wildfire.

Getting back to Ned, he does not go Straight to Kings Landing or even Winterfell but to Starfall after the battle at the Tower of Joy (Supposedly to tell them about Arthur’s death) and to return “Arthurs sword” House DAYNE is in DORNE.

Dorne is very important to the next dream of Daenerys as she remembered: thoughts of strangely remembering the scent of a Lemon tree outside her door! How could that be? She had to have been in Dorne to smell Lemons which are in DORNE.

All things are pointing to her Birth not being at Dragonstone but actually at the Tower of joy.

In Ned’s dream after being wounded he dreamt of the battle at The Tower of Joy, Why is this so important? Because the Greatest of the Kings Guard were there including the Lord Commander of the Kings Guard. (Actually cut out of HBO’s show but in the books) No matter what child was born there it is very important to remember the Three Kings Guard who were there 3 of them and why would they be there?

Rhaegar is dead so no reason to be there?

Aerys is Dead so why be there?

Only Ned and Howland Reed survived the battle and know what Ned left with from the Tower of Joy. Was it one baby or twins? If twins it would be R+L=D&J. Now wouldn’t that be mind blowing Dany and Jon are twins.

Lyanna is buried in the crypts of Winterfell a place reserved for Lords and Kings of the North not for women so Lyanna being buried there with Neds adherences to tradition and Gods Lyanna would have had to be a Queen to be buried there. Granted this could be simply a tie in to Jon but Martin is very good at making you think one thing then doing something else.

Yet another Ned Protection is when NED refused to have any part and resigned as hand of the King when they wanted to kill Dany. Was Ned still trying to fulfill an oath to Lyanna?

Barristan Selmy was also at that small council, Yes the show left it out. Barristan also was opposed to the Killing of Dany, We all know he later went on to serve Dany. I should note he was at war with Rhaegar at the Trident and it is possible that he told Barristan that Dany was his child. Probably not Girl nor Boy he may or may not have known that but he would know about child to be born, so it makes sense that Sir Barristan would seek her out.

Also at the Small Council meeting Peter (Little finger) Baelish argued against using a “faceless man” A faceless man is a guaranteed death, Instead Varys sent word to poison her. Yet Jorah managed to prevent it, assumingly on the order of Varys as Jorah would have had to known about the poison and who had it and Varys would be the only one to know this, well maybe the only one Little finger may well have known also.

Further evidence is that Maester Aemon (did not die at the wall like in the show) but actually died on route to Meereen to Dany with Sam and Gilly as companions. Why is this important? We know Rhaegar sent many letters to him regarding the prince that was promised. It is highly likely he told him he believed it to be Dany. Had John been his son then Aemon would never have left the Wall breaking his oath or Sam also breaking his oath. (HBO changed this from the book)

Jon Snow

If Dany was the child of Rhaegar and Lyanna then who is Jon Snows Parents?

Brandon Stark and Ashara Dayne or (B+A=J) Remember Ned did tell Jon he was a STARK. Now you have to go back to the Great Tournament at Harrenhal to understand this one. That tournament had many consequences. We all know that when Rhaegar won the tournament he crowned Lyanna and this is where the R+L=J theory comes in. Obviously Rhaegar loved her and she married him (speculation) in front of the Heart tree and they spent a lot of time at the Tower of Joy right after.

But at the Great Tournament it is said that Ashara Dayne was taken advantage of by a Stark. Ned was busy with Howland Reed, who was a friend of Lyanna so no way it was Ned. But Brandon was free to play.

My belief in this also goes back to the Battle at the Tower of Joy. Ned left and went to Dorne as I said before; and Ashara and Ned conspired to protect both the children. Ashara soon committed suicide supposedly but no body was ever found, in AWOIAF Martin has often said without proof of death there is no proof of death.

I believe Ashara took Dany to Dragonstone possibly or wherever Viserys was and then she left to Asshai where she became Quaithe to look after Dany and Ned took Jon to look after him. Now you must look at Quaithes Prophecy to Dany to understand this as well as what happens when Daenerys is wandering lost, starving, and alone in the Dothraki Sea, she slips into a restless sleep and hears Quaithe's original instructions again. She then sees Quaithe, whose mask is made of starlight, and the stars whisper in a woman's voice

That is important as it is House Daynes sigil.

And finally and hate to say it but Dear Old Ned or I should say Sean accidently slipped up and said he was not Jon’s Father in an interview (whoooppppps) but even more telling was he told Jon that he would tell him about his mother when they met next. Ned would never betray Lyanna NEVER so that tells me Jon is not the R+L=J.

And here is my Prediction for Jon, he does die at the wall and becomes COLD HANDS!

Jon (show) has already done some of the Cold Hands story only as Jon. This goes with HBO combining characters and plot lines.

How will we ever know for sure? Howland Reed knows and is still alive and I believe him to be the High Sparrow in the (show) His loyalty to Ned and Lyanna seem to fit everything the Sparrow is doing to the Lannisters. Little Finger is feeding the knowledge to the people needed to make bad things happen to them as well. He also knows what Ned did, that the Kids of Jamie and Cersie are just that.

Why is Little finger doing everything he is? I believe him NOT Varys to be the one trying to restore the Targaryens to power. Everything he has done has been designed to destroy major houses and weaken them yet the only house he has not messed with is Martell a Known supporter of the Targaryens . House Baelish is aligned with house Arroyn which up until Roberts Rebellion were staunch supporters of the Targaryens.

Now even more to it is when the Targaryens were taken away from Dragon Stone it was Willem Darry who did it his loyalty is FIRST to the Targaryens but secondly to HOUSE BAELISH.

Now let’s look at what Little Finger has done, He has weakened major opposition houses, Stark, Barratheon,Lannister and Tyrell. Their armies are severely weakened and house in turmoil. He is now Lord of Harrenhal and for all purposes the Vale two major areas that have been unharmed. If he is allied with Dorne then he has the three most powerful houses allied with him or under his control.

He knows the Dragons are real and he knows History very well and what will happen when Dany returns. For him to have in place the Powers to support her would put him in even a better position of power. I doubt he wants the throne himself as he is all too familiar with what comes with it, but to be given major lands and titles with the wealth, now that would interest him. He literally can have his cake and eat it too, and we all know he likes that.

Finally going back to Quaithe; remember her warning to Dany.

The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal.

Now HBO has killed some of this it appears (Pale Mare) (Kraken and Dark Flame) but we still have the Lion, Griffin the suns sun and the Mummers Dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal.^[ I believe they also shot down the (Griffin and Suns Sun) the Young Griff story basically. So we are left with Mummers Dragon and Perfumed Seneschal

I believe the Mummer is Vary’s and the Lion is Jamie (see tyrions dream about the battle of the second trident): That night Tyrion Lannister dreamed of a battle that turned the hills of Westeros as red as blood. He was in the midst of it, dealing death with an axe as big as he was, fighting side by side with Barristan the Bold and Bittersteel as dragons wheeled across the sky above them. In the dream he had two heads, both noseless. His father led the enemy, so he slew him once again. Then he killed his brother Jaime, hacking at his face until it was a red ruin, laughing every time he struck a blow. Only when the fight was finished did he realize that his second head was weeping

Ok;

Dany is R+L=D = Mother of a lot of names but true Ruler of Wes oh hell the World

Jon is B+A= J = Cold Hands

Tyrion = Just awesome and now taking it to a new level and yes he is a Targaryen (Mad King is his daddy)

Little Finger = Targaryen Supporter

Vary’s = Mummers dragon

Sansa = Lady Stone Heart

Jamie = Azor ahai

Bran = The new Bran the Builder

Arya = I have no clue but I hope she goes back to Westros gets in trouble claim trial by Combat and we get Clegan Bowl.

So there are my theories to date, they may be all wrong which would not bother me at all. I have often had to rethink things with each new book and that is what makes it so much fun. I have much more about other characters but wanted to keep it to the main three Dany, Jon and Tyrion. But in doing so Little Finger had to be talked about as I believe as Evil has he has been portrayed that he is actually a HERO.

[Ham]

Tons of detail in the books, but he left plenty of mystery in there as well. I've enjoyed that not everything is spelled out, but it does also drive me crazy at times. I borrowed the books from the library and I didi not have the leisure of reading slowly or of reading them a second time to iron in all the wrinkles.

It sure seemed as I read thru that Ned remembers his promise to dearly departed sister when Jon was an issue. That sort of thing really makes me think Jon is her child, but I like your Dany theory too.

I hope Jon bounces back magically rather than becoming cold hands, but meh.

Stennis burning up his daughter uses up any sympathy I had for him. He's free to lose his skin to the Boltons for all I care.

If Rhaegar was already married with kids, how does he marry Lyanna?

Tyrion being from someone else's seed would explain a lot of Tywinn's animosity towards him. Is that hinted at in the companion books?

I'm ready for Theon to shake off being Reek a little bit and cos some havoc. Is Brutus of Tarth ever gonna come back into play? It'd be nice if she got to kill Robo-Clegan. She has the skill set.

[Feathers and Fins]

If Rhaegar was already married with kids, how does he marry Lyanna?

Tyrion being from someone else's seed would explain a lot of Tywinn's animosity towards him. Is that hinted at in the companion books?

Is Brutus of Tarth ever gonna come back into play? It'd be nice if she got to kill Robo-Clegan. She has the skill set.

No laws against polygamy in Westros though not commonly practiced that we know of and why not Sister Marrying was practiced so why not two wives.

I doubt Tywin knew about much of anything about his kids he didn't know about the twinsest or Tyrion high intelligence. Its hinted at in the Main books but also the companion books a little.

Brutus of tarth lmfao I think of her more like HULK of Tarth. I am really not sure where the story is going with her it could go a few places but I really need the next book to draw any conclusion though she has a major part with Lady Stone Cold Stark so I do see why she and Sansa are together. It does fit in to my theory.

Screw her killing RoboMountain I want Clegan-Bowl.

[Feathers and Fins]

Ham its one series you should buy and keep on hand for review. It really is like a great mystery and playing detective is a blast. The show is more like a misleading clue that you have to follow to weed out the bad clues or hidden clues in the books. After S5 E6 I had to go read Book 1 again. Its a lot of fun on the porch at night with a good cigar and glass of Bourbon or Sweet Tea. My way to unwind.

[Ham]

Some times I read books and wish the story had gone a different direction and think abiot how it would have been different. The TV show gives us a chance to see another version of a great story, but it is sort of Bud Light instead of a craft beer.

[Feathers and Fins]

I agree, I often have thought through the show if ABC, NBC, CBS or any of them had a cable network similar to HBO they could have made the show and their revenue is much high and we could have got 20 episodes or more a year and really covered the entire storyline. There is to many for HBO on their Budget to do.

But I also have to wonder did HBO spend to much budget on going to places around the world to shoot when they could have shot on a Studio lot for many of the scenes and spent more money on storylines and CG.

[Ham]

I agree, I often have thought through the show if ABC, NBC, CBS or any of them had a cable network similar to HBO they could have made the show and their revenue is much high and we could have got 20 episodes or more a year and really covered the entire storyline. There is to many for HBO on their Budget to do.

But I also have to wonder did HBO spend to much budget on going to places around the world to shoot when they could have shot on a Studio lot for many of the scenes and spent more money on storylines and CG.

It's laughable that they have a CG dragon, but they have to travel world wide for the realism of the scenic vistas. Lol, I sort of suspect that the production crew likes going to exotic destinations on somebody else's dime.

[Feathers and Fins]

Three CG Dragons right now. Still a Egg in Westros (and I bet Little Finger ) knows about it and where it is plus potential ice dragons North of the wall and Maybe one at Winterfell.

They could really take Dragons to a major role if they would. Hell it would be better than Dorne.

[Lancer09]

I think the show at this point really has veered off, and I would venture to guess that the end result of the show may be the same as the novels, but might take a completely and totally different path to get there. Otherwise I think they would spoil the books and I think Martin cares to much about those to let the show ruin them. I really believe he has fed D and D some info about what will happen, but it's what he wants for the show, not for his baby.

Feathers, Great theories! Lot of thought put into them. Here is my take (what i love the most about GOT, is that it's not just a set of novels, but a whole world put together, that all of this can be explored)

Daenery's: I don't think she can be R+L. Viserys in the early books corroborated that Dany traveled with him from dragonstone. I think it even mentions that he remembers her birth. I think Ned returned Dayne's sword based out of respect and honor to the Kings Guard. However I THINK that they could have been there to guard a set of Fraternal twins, but they aren't Jon and Dany, they are Jon and Aegon. One looks Stark that Ned could pass off as his bastard, the other is too Targaryen for that, and could have been smuggled out by Jon Connington. I think that the KG were there because they knew Viserys had either fled, or died in the process of fleeing, Meaning that Dany was gone as well, and the next king would be whoever was born first between Jon and Aegon.

I thought All of the Stark Lord family members were in the crypts but your jogging my memory that it was only the lords. Lyanna Being there really could mean something as she would have been queen for a short time after Aerys had died, before Rhaegar had if they had been married. However would Brandon have ever actually been Lord of Winterfell? His father went to KL because Brandon was captured and presumably killed at that point?

Jon: Were Brandon and Ashara ever known to be together? I think this is a possibility but I think that R+L is most likely. I also think Ned + Ashara is more likely to have occured than Brandon and Ashara. I do think this also however is the reason that Ned returned the sword of House Dayne, out of respect because he had a child with a member of that house.

It'll be a bit of a letdown when Jon really does belong to Ned and a fisherman's daughter...

I do however believe that Ashara is alive, and think that there is a good chance that she is the Septon traveling with Aegon. She is said to have stretch marks on her belly and breasts from when she carried a child. Septon's didn't have children, and this may be the lie used so that she could escape with Aegon. However if she was the mother, I don't think she was ever linked to a targ father.

I do think this lends Credence to Ned and Ashara though. Ned took Jon to protect him from the war, and having a child with the other side during the rebellion. I think There is a possibillity that Ashara went and is looking after Aegon in place of her own child.

I think that Vary's is the one who actually is trying to restore the Targs to power, but I do think he has his own Agenda. Littlefinger is an unknown suitor to the iron throne actually. Instead of starting an all out rebellion he is using politics and assasination to work his way towards the top.

So do you think there will two coldhands now? or does Jon the replace the one in existance. Remember that Coldhands tells Sam when he shows him his way under the wall that he cannot pass under it. I think that if Jon were to be Coldhands he would be unable to do anything south of the wall. I theorize that coldhands is a former NW member who was one of the few whom never broke their vows. This provided protection north of the wall when he was killed by an other. Instead of turning into a wight he was able to still fully operate, however because he had died, his vows no longer necessarily apply, and he cannot pass beneath the wall.

I think that Jon does in fact die, but Bran is becoming the new Bran the builder. Instead of building something physical he is building the new world around by warging and influencing events. I think he is going to be able to maintain Jon's body while Jon has warged into ghost until he is ready to take his body again, and be released of all his NW vows. I think he ends up Marrying either Dany, or Val, and truly becomes the King in the North.

Final thoughts.

Dany is Aery's daughter:

Jon is either R+L or N+A

Bran does become Bran the builder

I think Tyrion is Aery's Bastard. Remember he has one black and one light eye, two shades of hair and everything else. Physical appearances are key in ASOIAF to establish genealogy lines. They know Roberts bastards based solely on appearance.

I think Jon is also Azor Ahai, reborn, as he is reborn from ice, reborn from the dead.

One of the reasons I think the show is going to take a different path to the same destination from the books now is the exclusion of some characters who are poised to make big strides such as Lady Stoneheart, moving Sansa from the Eyrie to Winterfell. By marrying and confirming that Jeyne Poole is not Arya, it undermines everything the Boltons have done.

I also think that Jeyne Westerling is still Carrying Robb's son, who may or may not throw a wrench in Jon's Plan to be King in the North, however it never specifies who actually was older between Robb and Jon, so Jon could techinically be older, and it was him all along!