Not Good News as to the Health of the Rivers

[taxidermist]

I just started fishing White River (again) after retiring from the Army in 1998. What is the White TOILET PAPER looking crap I see in the summer???

Also last week as I fished the upper White below the dam, I see guides dragging the bottom, I thought that had been outlawed?

I don't know what the object is they were dragging but i suspect it was to slow the boat down, it also stirs the moss and grasses to get trout to feed.

Next question is why do guides from a certain resort do this and other not?

I will also point out that I have seen Mr Wotten on the river many times and he is one of the most courteous guides!! He has never crowded anyone and always stays as far away from other boats as he can.

Other guides should take lessons from him!!

John

[snagged in outlet 3]

Toilet paper stuff is didymo. I think there is a very good story about it in the North Arkansas fly fishers Newsletter. Phil might have a link.

They drag a length of chain to position and slow the drift. Not illegal in AR.

Apparently polluting the river with runoff isn't seen as problem down there either.

SIO3

[Crippled Caddis]

<Also last week as I fished the upper White below the dam, I see guides dragging the bottom, I thought that had been outlawed?>

It was on the Norfork. Why it hasn't been implemented on the White is beyond my understanding. Surely dragging a chain thru the redds and weeds is just as damaging on the White as on the Norfork. Perhaps Davy will give us feedback on it.

[RiverRunner]

Drag chains are outlawed on the Norfork because there is more significant vegetation there that can be ripped up by a drag chain. I think Tom mentioned the late Chuck Davidson, I believe he is the one that helped pushed the drag chain ban through in 1981. SIO3 is right about one thing, the powers that be don't seem to have a problem with the runoff or didy, they are happy as long as the tourist & retirement dollars are rolling in.

[Davy Wotton]

RR,

I can assure you that the AGFC are well aware of the situation.

Like l said in my previous post, it remains to be seen what will be done.

This fishery can recover very fast, there is no doubt of that, after the problems are dealt with.

Davy.

[Terry Beeson]

The key word in your last sentence, RR... "as long as the tourist and retirement dollare ARE rolling in." There is no forward thinking or long-term planning on the minds of the powers that be in general. Chuck Davidson WAS a very forward thinking man and it is hoped that someone will step up to the plate and take that same mentality into the game.

Our society is so "now" based, we have lost site of any heritage or lineage. Selfishness and greed have taken over. Where do you think the term "me generation" comes from? And, yes, as I point my finger, I feel the three fingers pointing back at me...

"God grand me patience... and I want it NOW!!!"

[Davy Wotton]

John,

Thank you for your compliments here.

I guess in some ways l am from the old school when it come to common courtesy for other rivers users. I wish all were of the same mind.

Yes, what you see is didy, that is how it came to be known here. Anglers thought that is was sewage waste from the plant at BSD. We know different to day.

Drag chains.

The main reason for use is this, they will keep the bow of the boat facing upstream, they may not slow the boat drift speed down, as that would depend on many things such as depth, speed and substrate.

They will also help stop the boat from moving in to right and enable anglers to have better drift control.

The alternative is as many do, is to keep the motor running, and at low revs there is a high discharge of oil residue into the water, not to mention the fumes and the motor noise.

There are some guides here that will keep a motor running all day from the get go to the time they quit fishing.

Are drag chains detrimental to the river substrate. I can only say this.

for a fact continuous wading will cause the demise of aquatic vegetation, that in turn of course reduces food base habitat.

Same scenario as a well walked path through a grass field.

It is also more so detrimental to redds as here you are dealing with the shallow water zones, as a rule within gravel substrate.

As a rule you would not use a chain in low water, you do not need to as a rule.

But l will accept that when we have adverse winds such as a bad up stream, or cross winds the only way to afford drift control is to use the motor, either to help back down stream or to maintain a straight line drift.

Do l think that they are detrimental to the substrate. I have stood in the front of my boat and watched what does happen as that chain moves.

Moss beds of course are tailing down stream with the flow. The drag chain does not rip moss beds up in the way you would imagine it to do so.

As a rule it simply rides over the moss.

Chains are not of a great weight to start with, and tethered as a rule to a short rope of 10 to 15ft.

Of course l do accept that in some cases they are not the best option to use, and it is not for myself at least a question of use at any time. More so when l have adverse conditions to deal with, and l would rather use the chain than the motor to be honest.

The Norfork is a very different river to the White and a way more fragile environment, and it may well be that the use of chains there did have some detrimental effect.

On the other hand so does running a motor all day, and if we fish that river for the aspects of safety when we have high water there you have to rely on the motor.

The only other answer is the use of a drift boat, saying that, many of the guys who use those here also run a motor.

Motor or chain, either way both do have a downside.

Davy.

[Gavin]

Made my first trip to the White twenty five years ago and I made my last one five years ago. The White just isnt the same river it once was and I dont enjoy the trout park atmosphere. Dont know what to blame it on, unrestricted development, bad Agricultural practices, to much fishing pressure, invasive species, to many stocker bows. It could also be natural decline over time. Table Rock, LOZ, and Bull Shoals arent what they used to be either.

[RiverRunner]

That makes me feel better about using a drag chain. I've used one on the White for a number of years and I would hate to think that it was causing damage. Gavin is right about the change in the White River from years ago. All the development and fishing pressure has taken its toll for sure. That's one of the main reasons I choose to fish below the confluence whenever water conditions allow, that area has much less development and still retains the "wildness" that is lacking on the upper White & the Norfork. I just hope that it stays that way.

I would be curious to the numbers of trophy fish that have been caught in the last 5-6 years as compared to the 1990's on the White & Norfork. I lived out of the area from 2003-2006 and it seemed that the fishing and water quality really declined while I was gone. It also seems that you don't hear many reports of very large browns (15 lbs & up) being caught in recent years. If I were a resort , dock owner, or guide, I would be very concerned about the lack of trophy fish since they are the "selling point" used in marketing campaigns to bring tourists to the area. Just because these fisheries produced record-sized fish in 1988 doesn't mean they still can given the current environmental conditions. Like Davy says though, if given the right attention, these fisheries can recover quite quickly. That should give everyone hope and help focus everyones attention on what needs to be done to correct the problems.

[Crippled Caddis]

<Drag chains are outlawed on the Norfork because there is more significant vegetation there that can be ripped up by a drag chain. I think Tom mentioned the late Chuck Davidson, I believe he is the one that helped pushed the drag chain ban through in 1981.>

Chuck was my friend and mentor on the Norfork. I well recall the resistance he got from dock owners and guides when he tried to get the chain dragging halted. His life was even threatened. But the case he made for stopping the practice was so strong that it became the law. As far as I'm concerned the only difference between the Norfork and the White is one of scale. So it will just take longer on the White to affect vegetation and the aquatic food chain. As I am not an habitue' of the White can someone give us a comparison of the current weed growth below Bull Shoals vs. 10 or 20 years ago?

<the powers that be don't seem to have a problem with the runoff or didy, they are happy as long as the tourist & retirement dollars are rolling in.

Then they need to awaken from their self-imposed stupor and become a part of the solution BEFORE the bottom drops out of their cash cow. If history is a dependable indicator that won't happen however and the screams for relief when the inevitable takes place are going to be deafening. CC