The Oregon Standoff

[SpoonDog]

2 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

Looks like some undercover feds are involved in a smear campaign.  Harassing the locals and creating unrest while pretending to be among the ranchers.   

 

I kinda suspected that some of the destruction during the Ferguson ordeal was done by our "system" to paint a worse picture of the protesters. Ya know, the burning of cop cars and such.

    Like they would just leave a cop car completely unattended and unwatched during an event like that. Yeah right.  

Y'all that trust and believe these authoritative government people are so blind (IMO). 

 

Whew!  Good thing they caught 'em, I'm sure the feds were just about to fluoridate the water.

 

Just a stab in the dark, but I'd wager if your militia decides to commandeer a federal wildlife refuge, federal law enforcement will show up. 

The video of the guy's press conference is below-the first 8:30 is pretty tough to follow (reminded me of the quiz bowl scene in Billy Madison), after that he gets into his encounter.  Spoiler alert:  in his press conference, Briels never says he found FBI agents impersonating militia members.  I mean I get it- it's a good story, it feeds into their narrative, it makes the militia look like heroes and the government look like oppressors.  That's what it's supposed to do.  That's the whole point.  But it isn't true. 

 

 

It's par for the course with these folks.  They haven't been forthcoming about the amount of money they've happily taken from Uncle Sam.  They were gonna leave when the sheriff asked, they didn't.  They were gonna leave when the locals asked, they didn't.  They're mad about arson charges until they're mad about grazing leases until they're worried the Constitution isn't being honored- whatever garners the most sympathy.  You don't have to trust the government, but I'd sure think twice before trusting these guys.

 

There's plenty about the government to get mad about.  There's a pile of folks in Flint Michigan bathing and drinking bottled water because some bureaucrat thought they could save a dime a gallon.  Let's be outraged about a real thing for a real reason.

[Terrierman]

On ‎1‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 10:27 PM, fishinwrench said:

Before the govt. came down on them though.   Was anyone (besides the govt) truly put out about the specific area where they were grazing their livestock, or where they burned ?    I'm assuming that it isn't prime fishing/hunting land, just miles of otherwise useless grassland prairie ? 

Would I be allowed to run a bird dog on it, let him poop, that sort of thing ?

I can't help but think five years in the Federal pen for a couple of grassfires is a bit much. Imagine the conversations in the dining hall:

"What you in for dog?" "They said I murdered a few people in Boston" "Man that's tough"

"How about you?" "They said I kidnapped these women and kept them in my basement for fifteen years"

"Hey, what are you two guys in for?" "Arson."

"Wow here in the Federal pen, what did you burn down, the White House?" "Nope, range fires"

"That's rough man, to get here you must have set a buttload of fires" "Nope, just two"

"Two? No freakin' way. They must have been dandies, what, did you burn down half of your state?" "Nope, 139 acres"

"darn son, that must have been some kind of valuable 139 acres, did it have some huge butt Sequoias on it or something?" "Nope, tumbleweeds and sagebrush"

"You lyin' dog. What did you really do?"

[Terrierman]

On ‎1‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 0:34 AM, Deadstream said:

Can I lease, hunt, sublet this property?   WE all own it correct?  Who do I call?

Bureau of Land Management.

[Terrierman]

7 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

Brian,   Hijacked? if they have broken any laws they would be arrested, pronto.

 Armed to the teeth? Since when is it illegal to carry a gun in Oregon ?   No shots have been fired, right?

There is an issue regarding constitutional rights here, and although I'm not clear on what they are when it comes to this, since nobody has been arrested I'm gonna guess that the government owned media is not relaying the full and true story here.   

I do know one thing though, you can bet your butt that if anyone has witnessed any of these rancher/miitia people breaking the law then they would be in custody already.    

Now tell me, because I guess I'm stupid,  what exactly they are doing that is unlawful.  And while your at it, if you don't mind, take another moment and explain to me what the federal government is doing that is right, or in other words... benefiting the people of Oregon. 

Well for one thing they have been tearing down fences.  Last time I looked, destroying federal property was considered breaking the law.

[Quillback]

Arson is a sensitive topic in the west, range fires can get out of control.  3 firefighters died in Washington state last year fighting a wild fire.  Dry grass, sagebrush and wind is a bad combination.  I wouldn't make an assumption that when those clowns set that fire that they were equipped to handle things if it got out of control.

[Mark]

Sounds about right, fishinwrench, feds planting undercover agents to harass locals to stir up more animosity against the ranchers. This type of underhandedness only reinforces people's suspicions of our fed govt. I don't blindly trust our federal government. Why was some covert operation necessary if the feds are in the right to begin with? While nothing about the operation is illegal, I presume, it certainly paints a negative picture of the law enforcement handling the situation. Not hard to wonder why so many people in that part of the country are leery of the feds anyway.

[XP 590]

On ‎1‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 10:21 AM, Flysmallie said:

Bundy is a douche and should take his douchey ways elsewhere. The people in the community don't want him there. The two guys that went to prison didn't want him there. He needs to go and take his band of losers with him. Or the government should treat them like they would if they weren't white rednecks. I bet if they were Muslim it would be over. But it was designed to be political so that's exactly what it will be.  

Agreed.  Bundy has NOTHING to do with this deal.  The people involved don't even want him there.

[Al Agnew]

I don't know where Wrench's quote came from, but I'm NOT taking it, or the various news versions, at face value.  The volunteer fire chief obviously has an agenda in line with the Bundys.  Are there undercover FBI agents in the area?  Sure.  Look, you gotta step back and look at the big picture here.  It's not illegal to carry guns in Oregon.  It's not illegal to peacefully assemble.  It's not illegal to protest (peacefully) about anything these guys are supposedly protesting.  They may even have a point with some of it.

However, I'm fairly sure they HAVE broken some laws.  I'm pretty sure there's a law on the books somewhere about breaking into and occupying government property.

And here's the thing...taken separately, all those things they have done are not a big deal.  But put them all together and you have armed occupiers of public property, calling for, among other things, land that belongs to all of us and which all of us have a right to use to be turned over to local interests.  You have them calling for help from organizations who have a beef with the government and who are apparently itching to do something about it.  It isn't too hard to imagine that this could escalate into something nobody wants to see.  So sure, I'd expect the FBI to be on the scene, including working undercover.  I might even expect them to check out the armory and see what the situation is there.  I might even expect them to be posing as militia members.  I'll wait and see if what they are doing is geared toward discrediting the Bundy bunch, or whether it's geared toward gauging the likelihood of locals and others hanging around joining with and aiding the Bundy bunch.

I don't have complete faith and trust in the federal government.  But geez, it takes more of a tinfoil hat than I can construct to think that the government is out to get us all and the people like the Bundy bunch are all fine, upstanding citizens who have all our best interests in mind.

[Mark]

I don't think the government is out to get me, or take my guns away (if I actually owned any) or people like the Bundy bunch have my best interests in mind, but have seen enough underhanded stuff in my lifetime from FBI and CIA to know I wouldn't put anything past them, illegal or unethical. The end doesn't always justify the means, IMO. No one has been hurt or died, and no one is being held against their will as far as we know. If an agency representing our federal government has indeed used undercover methods to incite others against the protesters, they are acting beyond the scope of law enforcement. If our federal government is in the right with regard to policies and procedures that this so far peaceful protest revolves around, then let's let the card play out. No need to stack the deck.

[Terrierman]

Had Cliven Bundy been dealt with properly when he was having his temper fit this would have never happened.  I learned that lesson from my kids.