PC Marinia

[Stump bumper]

Just a small rant here but also a question about the law. The marina in PC has signs posted all around it about it is illegal to fish within 50 feet' yet the law states you cannot fish within 50 feet of dock with a gas pump. As far out as they have extended the marina that covers just about everything between the buoys if you say everything connected is under that law.  Yet people that have boats there can put out lights and fish from the dock all night without being hassled. So if this is a state law how do people buy their way past the law? If it is not a state law then how do they get away posting signs saying it is?

Is this State property?

This really got on my nerves last night while putting away my gear and getting some hooks out of my seat I drifted near the outside corner of the docks closet to the brake wall. A guy with no shirt and a spot light claiming to be security came out yelling at me and kept saying "you guys" that You guys was breaking the law and needed to get going. I was alone by the way.Seeing how it was late and I was the only one around, I stopped what I was doing and moved away for fear someone had given this questionable gentlemen a firearm I didn't want to be shot for drifting into a free fire zone.

It has given me a very bad feeling about the place and I sure will not ever go there to buy anything.

[Blll]

When I first moved here,4 yrs ago, I didn't know about the PC rules. I was just idleing around the docks, not casting, as I was still considering getting on their waiting list for a slip. A fella gave me the "no fishing" speech while sitting on a lawn chair. i've found the marina people to be helpful and friendly. The slip owners not so much. I guess they would really get hammered by fisherman if they had no rules. When I get gas or go to the restaurant there always seem to be tons of fish in the marina, bait anyway. No rules in Illinois or Wisconsin. There many slip/dock owners put out cable or chains to snag your lures. I guess I'd hate to have my boat peppered by lures but most fisherman are pretty careful. A few bad eggs can spoil it for all. I'm not really sure if it is a real "law". Why would the PC marinas have different laws than any other floating dock. But I fish for fun. Don't need anyone ragging on me while I fish. Peace. Stump don't let the turkeys get to ya. 

[Stump bumper]

Bill, I understand the slip owners getting protective but this guy came out of the store and was very rude. I guess he saw me on a camera and thought I was too close. There were two people in a boat besides the dock without their lights on fishing the dock, I guess he had confused them with me. The fact remains I don't like being blinded with a spot light and threaded when I am doing no damage. After he finished yelling he walked back into the store so I assume he was an employee, one with a very lacked dress code yet an employee.

Anyway I took it mean stay away and I will stay away from that marina all hours of the day and night. I would by no means want to disturb the wake boaters while they blare their music and drink while running their boats in circles.

Also it would have taken a very calibrated eye to see if I was 45 feet or 50 feet from the dock while trying to get a treble hook out of my front seat in the dark without ripping the seat.   

I just take a spot light as an act of aggression, has something to do with being in the Army for 22 years. Try this out on a State Trooper next time you get pulled over and watch his reaction. Exactly what every bone in my body felt last night. (My mind to me "you can't see his hands, he is blinding you take out the light.)

I am over it, but stepping foot on that dock would bring it back so I will just stay away.

[Blll]

I hear ya Stump. I sure wasn't defending them. I missed the part of the guy coming from the store. Spot light was certainly overkill. I only go there for gas cause its the closest for me. Did you see the new pavilion they built on the point. Guess they are rushing to get it done by the FLW week. 

[Champ188]

Corps of Engineers Policy on Commercial Docks:

COMMERCIAL ZONE AT MARINA CONCESSION SITES
1. Purpose: This memorandum provides for the establishment of a commercial zone at marina
concession sites in the interest of public safety and for the protection of concessionaire and customer property. This includes the process for
permitting commercial concessionaire authority to place signs to restrict all but commercial
activity within this zone.
2. Applicabilitv: This memorandum applies to all lake projects in the Little Rock District upon
which commercial marinas have been authorized.
3. References:
a. Part 327.8, Title 36, Code of Federal Regulations.
b. ER 405-1-12, Real Estate Handbook, Chapter 8, Appendix By 20 November 1985.
c. EP 310-1-6A, Sign Standards Manual, Vol 1, chg 1, 1 April 1985.
d. ER 1130-2-550, Recreation Operations and Maintenance Policies, dated 15 November
1996
4. Obiective: Clear guidance provided by this policy will result in elevated district and project
employee confidence regarding the establishment and management of commercial zones within
marina concessions. In addition, this policy, applied consistently, will generate improved
relations between district marina owners and the public. To further clarify the intention of this
policy and to provide for consistent application, an implementation plan is included as Appendix
A.
5. Definition: Commercial Zone is defined as a designated area where only commercial
activities are authorized. Recreational activities such as fishing, swimming, and diving are
prohibited from public use including marina customers and patrons. No fishing tackle may be
cast into this area. Commercial activity is typically the procurement of materials, supplies and
services from the marina concessionaire. The commercial zone will include fuel and store docks,
restaurant docks, and boat storage docks.
6. Policy.
(a) Recreational opportunity on public waters is guaranteed, but it is subject to both state and
federal rules and regulations governing access to some places to prevent conflict and provide for
the most appropriate activity. Conditions contained in current commercial concession leases
state that “No attempt shall be made by the lessee to forbid the full and free use by the public of
the water areas of the project”. Concessionaires cannot, on their own initiative, post signs to
establish a commercial zone. Permission for the establishment of a commercial zone and sign
placement must be requested by the concessionaire after documented evidence that the need
exists and that the safety and protection of the public is at risk. No authorization for sign
placement and the establishment of a commercial zone in a leased area may be granted without
written authority from Chief, Real Estate Branch. All signs will be consistent with the US Army
Corps of Engineers Sign Standards.
(b) An agreement was reached in a meeting with representatives of state agencies and the US
Army Corps of Engineers that would permit marina concessionaires to restrict activities to their
patrons only by posting restriction signs. The restrictions would apply within 50 feet of storelgas
docks, restaurants docks, and boat storage docks. The restricted areas would be identified by the
posting of standard Corps signs. The first sign message is for placement on docks with an
alternate message for placement of breakwaters and at buoy lines where appropriate.
“Restricted – Marina Customers only within 50 feet from this dock”.
“Restricted – Marina Customers only beyond this sign”.
(c) Commercial zone restrictions will be enforced by US Army Corps of Engineers Park
Rangers under authority granted in Title 36, Part 327.12, Restrictions, or appropriate state or
local law enforcement agency. Special Event Permits issued by the Operations Project Manager
will include language advising the permittee of the restrictions contained in this policy
(d) Additional individual restrictions such as clearly defining navigation channels for ingress
and egress from the main channel may be described in writing and illustrated on a marina dock
plan drawing. The concessionaire must submit a written request to the Operations Project
Manager, who will review the request and submit it to Chief, Real Estate Branch for further
consideration and to furnish reply to the concessionaire. These requests will be coordinated with
the appropriate state management agency for their approval prior to issuing any restriction
authority.

COMMERCIAL ZONE AT MARINA CONCESSION SITES
Irnplemen tation Plan
Commercial Zones
a. Access and the right to pursue recreational activities are guaranteed to the public with
the condition that limitations apply to certain places so that conflicts are prevented and a broader
range of activities may be permitted. Currently, areas have been designated and recreational
activities are restricted at locks, dams, spillways, powerhouses, swimming areas, and water
intakes. Each restricted area limits recreational access for the safety and protection of lives and
property. Establishing a commercial zone has the same intention.
b. Currently, most marina owners have the authority to post “No Fishing” signs on their
docks as provided in their lease agreement. This has resulted in an issue focused primarily on
fishermen only, when the matter is one necessitating the separation of commercial and
recreational activities, The suggestion is made that a clearer message is provided through the use
of the term “Commercial Zone”, and if these signs are used, the Arkansas Game and Fish
Commission will enforce them. Typical trespass, theft and violations of local law are to be
reported to the appropriate local law enforcement agency.
c. If a marina owner has the authority to post signs as a condition in their lease
agreement, but no signs are present, a courtesy notification is requested to be provided to the
Operations Project Manager when “Commercial Zone” signs are placed. All other marina
owners must request authority to place signage designating a commercial zone. The request must
be written and forwarded to Chief, Real Estate Branch through the Operations Project Manager
for consideration. Requests for additional restrictions such as opening ingress and egress lanes,
while considered nominal, must be similarly requested using the same process. Authority to
place signs conveys no authority to the concessionaire to enforce any provision of this policy.
Enforcement will be the responsibility of Corps Park Rangers and local and state law
enforcement agencies as stated in their administrative order. However, this is to be a low priority
enforcement action.
d. Approved signage in accordance with the Corps Sign Standards Manual will be placed
on each dock where restrictions apply. Limits of the commercial zone will be determined from
the dock. Casting of fishing tackle by marina patrons or other lake users is prohibited iq the
commercial zone.
e. Commercial Zone restrictions are not provided for resort leases and private docks

[Stump bumper]

With all these rules about 50 feet, no fishing within 50 feet, no smoking within 50 feet can someone make me a laser measuring device for my cell phone to alert me when I am within 50 feet of anything? If I am 150 feet away and cast 125 feet in the direction of the dock?

Anyway, thanks for the info Champ. I found it very informative and I am over it now, but would like to remind people that some people get nervous on the lake at night alone and shinning spot lights at them is not a friendly gesture.

[Vinsott]

12 hours ago, Champ188 said:

Authority to
place signs conveys no authority to the concessionaire to enforce any provision of this policy.
Enforcement will be the responsibility of Corps Park Rangers and local and state law
enforcement agencies as stated in their administrative order. However, this is to be a low priority
enforcement action.

 

[Champ188]

On 4/14/2017 at 2:19 PM, Stump bumper said:

With all these rules about 50 feet, no fishing within 50 feet, no smoking within 50 feet can someone make me a laser measuring device for my cell phone to alert me when I am within 50 feet of anything? If I am 150 feet away and cast 125 feet in the direction of the dock?

Anyway, thanks for the info Champ. I found it very informative and I am over it now, but would like to remind people that some people get nervous on the lake at night alone and shinning spot lights at them is not a friendly gesture.

You bet, Stump Bumper. And I certainly couldn't agree more about shining a spotlight in someone's face OR about slip renters fishing off the dock. No fishing should mean no fishing --- period. Supposedly, the reasons for no fishing is because of the gas tanks, electrical lines, etc. around the docks, so those are equally hazardous for the slip renters and "intruders" like us.

And Vinsott makes another good point ... ol' Security Sam down there at PCM needs to holster his spotlight and button his piehole. Not his jurisdiction. He can call the Corps and see if they want to send someone out to enforce their nitpicking rules. Bet they don't.

[JohnF52]

I would like to see all the docks gone.  It would be like remoter parts of Bull Shoals.