Red wolf Article

[Johnsfolly]

Interesting article on reintroduction efforts for red wolves in the SE particularly in NC. I've  only seen them in zoos. This is a much smaller species than the gray wolves out west. They are about half a size larger than coyotes. The article never speaks to the size of their packs or if they pack hunt like the gray wolves. If not that could give some credence to less impact on deer populations. At least when they are at such low numbers.

https://www.outdoorlife.com/conservation/red-wolf-north-carolina-deer-predation/

[oneshot]

They had Wolves and many Mountain Lions here and it wasn't good. 

oneshot 

[Al Agnew]

I did a lot of work with red wolves in the past, studying them for paintings, including a few I did for MDC.  Fact is that they don't really know exactly what their pack structure is or was, because they were mostly gone by the time anybody started to study them.  And they interbred with coyotes to such an extent that it was difficult to find pure populations; I think the last remaining population from which breeding individuals were taken was down in far south Texas on a wildlife refuge.  They were breeding them for a while at the Wolf Center in Eureka, MO, and that's where I was able to study them.  At one point in the late 1980s, MDC was pondering whether to try reintroducing them (they were a native MO species, especially in the Ozarks), but they finally decided it was pointless since there were so many coyotes that it was unlikely that any tiny reintroduced population of red wolves would remain genetically pure; they'd just be swamped by coyote genetics in short order.  There was supposed to be a reintroduction in the Land Between the Lakes in Tennessee/Kentucky, because they thought that maybe the lakes would isolate them enough for them to hold their own against the coyotes.  And the reintroduction in North Carolina was thought to be viable because the eastern coyotes hadn't quite made it that far in huge numbers at the time.  

But, now eastern coyotes are everywhere, and personally I don't think that red wolves can exist for very long in the wild anywhere, unless you can somehow isolate them from coyotes.  This is one critter that I think you just give up on as far as wild populations, and maybe try to maintain a small breeding population just so they don't go completely extinct.  And of course that brings on its own set of problems with not enough genetic diversity to keep them healthy.

The ones I studied were cool looking animals, considerably different from either coyotes or gray wolves if you knew what you were looking for.  Long legged, beautiful facial markings of bold black, white, and tan, and noticeably bigger than coyotes (but not nearly as big as gray wolves).  Their ears were much bigger than gray wolves, too, and their muzzles not quite as heavy.  I wish it was possible for them to still exist in the wild, but I just don't think it's practical.

[oneshot]

Maybe some of these Coyote Crosses that people see are more Wofe genes coming out. 

oneshot 

[tjm]

I had thought that most science was pointing to them being hybrid coyotes. With the five subspecies of wolf in N. America being  Eastern wolf, Great Plains wolf, Mexican wolf, Northwestern wolf and Arctic wolf. Lots of red coyotes in some areas, or so I've read.

 coyote crosses

[Al Agnew]

On 4/23/2022 at 9:00 AM, tjm said:

I had thought that most science was pointing to them being hybrid coyotes. With the five subspecies of wolf in N. America being  Eastern wolf, Great Plains wolf, Mexican wolf, Northwestern wolf and Arctic wolf. Lots of red coyotes in some areas, or so I've read.

 coyote crosses

The wild canid genetics is really plastic.  But I think the genetic studies of the ones that were being captive-bred pointed toward red wolves being a distinct species, but one that very easily got polluted with coyote genes.  The coyotes in the northeastern U.S. supposedly have some wolf in them, believed to have got there by them passing through southern Canada on their way to the northeast.  But really, I have my doubts.  Most coyotes in the eastern U.S. simply spread from the midwest, and I think evolution selected the ones that were a bit bigger and could utilize the abundant deer.  I've seen coyotes in Missouri that I suspect had a bit of red wolf in them; they were leggier and their markings looked very little like typical coyotes.

Wolf classification depends upon whether the splitters or the lumpers are the more influential at the moment.  Back in the day, there were something like 25 subspecies of wolves.  I doubt that anybody knows exactly what the wolves in the eastern U.S. looked like; maybe like wolves in eastern Canada, maybe not.  Mexican wolves DO look quite a bit different from typical wolves--a little smaller, thinner muzzled, more of a ruff around their heads.  But back in the old days there was no isolation between supposed subspecies so they probably just blended into each other on the edges of their ranges.