What? No one

[bryantsmallie28]

Ok i am probably gonna make some people mad here but why cant some of the money used on trout be moved to smallmouth. It would seem to me like a native ozark stream fish would be a little more important than a freakin trout. But id say there are a few strings that wont allow that.

[Al Agnew]

The thing that ticks me off about the gigging situation (other than the low-lifes who intentionally gig game fish) is that MDC greatly lengthened the gigging season just at the time when jet boat technology enabled gigging to be much easier and more convenient. It wasn't ever easy to run a prop boat on Ozark streams at night, or to do shuttles for a gigging float trip. And it used to be that gigging season only lasted a month or two--don't remember exactly how long, but it didn't start in September like it does now.

I don't buy the idea that people gig smallmouths by accident. Anybody who has spent any time at all in a gig boat (and I have) can easily tell a smallie from a sucker. Nope, there are a lot of guys on the rivers I'm familiar with that are gigging bass on purpose. The Meramec in the Steelville and Sullivan area is really getting hammered by illegal giggers, and my friend who lives there and has vocally complained about it got a bunch of gigged and filleted smallmouths in his mailbox a few weeks ago. He and I fished the river a few weeks ago, just after this incident, and saw dead bass on the bottom. And the only place where we caught a bunch of bass was in a backwater that we had to wade up into because the connection to the river was too shallow to get a boat into it. Coincidence? Of the few bass we caught in the river, two had fresh gig scars. This stuff is worse now than it has been in the past. It really saddens me, because on streams like the Meramec, gigging is most certainly depressing the population of large adult smallmouths.

If you belong to a bass club whose members fish the rivers, try to get the club to get vocal and really complain about this situation. If you see or hear of illegal gigging, report it. Nothing will be done about it unless MDC get a lot of complaints.

[UAK squirrelpie]

thats really scary to hear that Al. And if you don't mind me asking, exactly where around steelville was this?

[Phil Lilley]

It sounds like MDC needs to identify "trophy smallmouth waters" and then take measures to protect the species- one action would be making gigging illegal.

Another would be to use their manpower and target groups like these guys till they are caught, take everything they're using including their boat, vehicle and trailer and make examples of them in the media.

[SKMO]

It sounds like MDC needs to identify "trophy smallmouth waters" and then take measures to protect the species- one action would be making gigging illegal.

Another would be to use their manpower and target groups like these guys till they are caught, take everything they're using including their boat, vehicle and trailer and make examples of them in the media.

Phil -

I think MDC has identified some trophy smallmouth (and bass in general) streams.

Not fun or easy reading but go to page 7 of:

http://www.sos.mo.gov/adrules/csr/current/3csr/3c10-6.pdf

and read the Black Bass section, bearing in mind that Black implies LM, SM & spotted unless exceptions are noted.

If memory serves me correct I think Big River was the first river in MO to have modifications of the "6 bass & 12" regulation, maybe as long as 10 years ago. Since then they have added several rivers where there are longer length limits and reduced bag limits. As I understand it there are 2 rivers in SW MO where there are more stringent regs: 1) James as noted in the link provided, and 2) Elk in McDonald County. The Elk River reg was just put into effect a couple years ago. I think they are identifying the best trophy rivers and implementing regs slowly as to not cause too much public outcry from those whose fishing experience has a lot to do with the frying pan.

I am not putting down those who keep and eat fish cause I do so myself. There are just certain species and waters that need more protection. I think in years to come we will see more streams added. There will be "consumer waters" and "trophy waters", and both serve a great purpose because there are an infinite number of fisherpeople out there all going to the water with different goals in mind.

As far as making gigging illegal on trophy waters I have to respectfully disagree. To make such a reg would imply that all giggers are slobs and violators and are cleaning out the rivers. We know this is not true. Wouldn't that imply that where there is not a gigging ban, that MDC does not really care and it doesn't matter what giggers do and it is expected that giggers will kill gamefish and that's just the way it is?

Hard for me to live with that reasoning. There are a few slobs left on the riverbank, in the boat, in the deer stand, and in the duck blind. Probably always will be. The rest of us know better and together I think we are getting the upper hand.

Thanks for a great forum!!

[gonefishin]

Cool. A hot topic. Looks like people are getting kind of excited about this one.

I don't like the idea of vigilante fishermen patroling their favorite bass or trout waters. For one thing I don't like the idea of having people spying on me and second there is way to much potential for abuse of people pursing legal sport because someone doesn't like them being on their favorite fishing hole for (X) fish. I also dont like the idea of confiscating property. Anyone who reads up on this will find that it often leads to serious abuse. Remember when they were warning people not to drive luxery cars across a certain state because the odds of it being confiscated by law enforcement was out of hand. These are not good ideas. We dont live in a police state --If we think there needs to be more enforcement we need to hire more enforcement officers to police the waters. The rest of us need to live and let live and simply enjoy fishing.

[ollie]

Yes, we need to make aware of the problems our native smallies face. I hope this forum is really being seen by those at MDC. I really do.

[Phil Lilley]

Honestly- smallmouth regs and policies are out of my league. I have alot to learn. As for the taking of property, I know there are abuses BUT I think it's necessary in extreme cases to make a statement. Some guys just don't learn by fines or even getting their permits revoked.

Case in point, I called Quinton the other day and reported a couple of guys in a green jon running up and back down the lake- mid day- shooting ducks while in full trottle. They've been doing this all season. He said to get a description if I could. I drove to Cooper Creek's ramp and found one truck and trailer there and the truck even had a Ducks Unlimited decale on the bumper. I took a pic and sent it to Quinton. He reported back and said these same guys had already been ticketed for shooting ducks illegally and some other charges involving the feds and firearms. Oh yea- they were drunk at the time of the shooting.

So you have a couple of guys who are awaiting their hearing on state and federal charges and still "hunting", as it were, in broad daylite on a busy lake. Sorry- they need to lose their guns and go to jail before they really hurt someone.

As for not gigging on specific streams, I yield. It wasn't the best thought.

[gonefishin]

I should clairify myself on the confisication of property. What I mean is the confisication of property before a person is found guilty of a crime. Once a person is found guilty---no problem, they get what they asked for.

Also I should mention I am not a gigger. I have never gigged a fish in my life and wouldn't have the first idea how to go about it. I do know, as MoCarp mentioned, it is an old Ozark tradition. On the whole it doesn't appear to have hurt the fishing any. In fact I recently read in Mo Conversation Magazine that gigging and the removal of rough fish actually helps sport fishing.

No kidding on the ducks?!?!? I have done a little duck hunting. I was hunting once in a boat and just the chop made it hard to hit anything, I can't imagine shooting at ducks at anything over a bare idle. That is a bit of an overstatement, I guess I can imagine shooting at them what I can't imagine is actually hitting them. Boats, guns and alcohol is a dangerous combination and so I have to agree that is a dangerous situation and they need to be immediatly stopped.

I am glad this discussion we are having is about a non-dangerous sport where if someone accidentally, or purposly, takes an illegal fish it isn't an emergency where someones life is in danger. At least it is as long as we can refrain from having vigilante fishermen patroling and protecting their favorite fishing holes from giggers, people other than trophy fishermen or whoever else they don't like sharing the water with.

[mcp633]

Its always easy to say that we need more law enforcement people on the waterways to enforce the regulations set forth to protect our wildlife, but as a law enforcement officer, I have to say that it is the responsibility of everyone to protect what's important to us. I don't advocate vigilanteism, however, as a street cop, most of the time we depend on observant citizens to help us do our job. It would not matter if we tripled the number of vigilant MDC Agents in the field, they cannot be everywhere at once, there's too much ground to cover. My bottom line is, if you see someone "poaching" it is your responsiblity to report them. Not to confront them, but report them. That's how we help MDC. If you say nothing, look the other way, nobody knows there is a problem except you and the poachers. And the poachers don't care.