Neosho Bass?

[Bassinboy14]

I caught this bass back in 2019 out of a creek near my old hometown and it always stumped me. I thought it was a meanmouth but never felt 100 percent with that answer. With the discovery of the neosho bass within the last couple years (if I’m not mistaken), could’ve this been a neosho bass? Only two pictures I got of that fish. 

[tjm]

Were the cheek scales smaller than on a smallmouth? Did the lower jaw stick out past the upper when the mouth was closed? Was it caught in fast water? The easiest way to tell the  difference is by what drainage they are in. More or less if the stream drains into Neosho River or Arkansas River it could/should be a Neosho bass if from outside that drainage it must be some other species. I don't think you'll find any Neosho Bass in a reservoir even within it's range.  

FWIW MDC is not presently managing the species as being anything but smallmouth, not even listed on the website. (so much for MDC being based on science) And Oklahoma, Arkansas have already stocked northern smallmouth in places where they didn't exist naturally, so the purity of the Neosho as a species is compromised. I'm not sure to what extent. 

A study of them - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9534746/

 

[tjm]

2 hours ago, Bassinboy14 said:

I thought it was a meanmouth

I don't really know anything about "meanmouth" fish, can you tell what characteristics about this fish that made you think that? 

[Bassinboy14]

It was caught out of the little sac, but meanmouth I was taught are a cross between a spotted bass and smallmouth, and it seemed to have the Kentucky characteristics in the jaw but the body favored more smallmouth and the colorings of a sun bathed smallmouth, however, there is a distinct lateral line (noticed better in the first photo) like a Kentucky. The jaw did not extend past the eye but rather ran down the middle. I’ve caught meanmouth out of table rock and they had very clear, distinct, markings. This one fish still stumps me. 

[Al Agnew]

It is absolutely a smallmouth/spotted bass hybrid.  No question about it.  Neosho bass used to be known as Neosho smallmouth, and was considered a subspecies for many years.  They are now considered a separate species.  But they are not indigenous to the Sac River and tributaries, so it couldn't be one...plus, they don't look like that.  I refuse to call the hybrids meanmouths, but this fish is a hybrid, and the hybrids are fertile, so they can back cross with either species, and produce a LOT of variation in appearance.  The keys to identifying this one is the visible horizontal band on the midside (you can call it a lateral band, but it isn't the lateral line, which is a row of scales with sensory pores--they sense vibrations in the water), and the hint of the rows of small dark spots on the lower side that connect to form thin horizontal lines...neither of those characteristics are found on pure smallmouth.

[tjm]

I believe  they are still known as smallmouth in MO., KS.  and OK,  fisheries people in none of these states seem to  recognize the Neosho as a species; AR seems to take more interest in them, and seem to think they have some pure origins. 

[tjm]

51 minutes ago, Bassinboy14 said:

caught out of the little sac,

Then it's not a Neosho. 

[Flysmallie]

7 hours ago, tjm said:

I believe  they are still known as smallmouth in MO., KS.  and OK,  fisheries people in none of these states seem to  recognize the Neosho as a species; AR seems to take more interest in them, and seem to think they have some pure origins. 

Not true. There is a four state coalition that meets about the Neosho. AR has done more work on them but the others are on board. 

[tjm]

They don't list them as a species on the web sites nor have regulations for them.  8 years should  be plenty of time to include at least the name if they were recognizing it. 

[Flysmallie]

2 hours ago, tjm said:

They don't list them as a species on the web sites nor have regulations for them.  8 years should  be plenty of time to include at least the name if they were recognizing it. 

It really doesn’t matter what you think. But since they were only recognized in 2021 or 2022 as a separate species you might want to get a refund on that Trump Math class you took. 
 

Try to educate yourself if you want to have intelligent conversations.