Midwest troutbum

Would anyone know if fishing is allowed at the Ha Ha Tonka spring, and if so, has anyone caught a trout in these waters? I have heard before the Bagnell dam was built it was run as a private trout park. The parks waters ran into ozark smallmouth streams that were likely the best in the state at the time. Comparable to the Current river or better. Last time I visited the park 10 years ago as a young adult, the waters had lunker sized trout. Would love to see some picks of the streams or area before the dam was constructed.

An interesting topic would be when in history did the vast majority of society shift their mindset and view of our states natural resources into a opportunity to host a short term lawless party bar?

Al....you hit the nail on the head. Couldn't even begin to tell the tradegy of our rivers better. I agree 100%.

Funny you should mention the whole PUBLIC argument jerry....if the rivers are by legal definition public areas shouldn't all folks have to abide by state and federal laws? If its not acceptable on a public street then it shouldn't be legal on the river.

Same type of situation can occur with rotting plant matter along river bottom. One minute your on solid ground. The next second your over your head in water with your waders filling up. Thanks for the tip. Use quick release suspenders to give yourself a fighting chance. Most of all if wading try to fish with at least one other person and use extreme caution. And good judgement.

I began fly fishing approx 12 years ago. Iv'e visited both shops a handful of times each year. I am not or have been an employee of any fishing store ever. I have purchased fly fishing equipment from both but would say more so from FC. Just a few observations over that time. Im not saying either shop is better than the other. I acknowledge many of you may disagree with my opinions based on your experiences. Im not trying to degrade any store. Im just posting my personal experiences and observations. You should visit both shops to have your own experience, as everyone has a different take on things and different needs. My take on FC from listening in on customer conversations is they deal primarily with people that come from money and spend money. The shop is in tune with the sport as a whole, nationally and beyond and keeps a clean well stocked retail based shop. However, some of the customers want to make a person puke. Ive heard just about all the stories, from "we just got back from our vacation timeshare in the Bahamas..... and were thinking of doing some fishing at our condo in Aruba this week....to the customers: If its a true story or a lie, I still don't care to hear it while I'm enjoying my shopping experience. FYI, No one cares where you've been, and the whole shop doesn't need to know. I should ask next time over the top of the isle, "why do you live in Missouri?" Then they drive off in their Range Rover SUV or Audi. I guess I should be thankful I don't see them out on the streams I visit. Anyhow, if you can put all this aside, and if the Saturday retail associate is in a good mood, you can typically have a somewhat truthful retail /fishing based conversation. If you need to get in and stock up quickly, they tend to be able to do this well. I haven't been led wrong except for a few times. H's is definitely the down to earth, mellow, and laid back type of shop. A grandpa's story telling kind of place. I prefer this walk back in time styled shop when thinking or wanting to talk about fishing. However, Iv'e had several unfortunate attempts to get attention or into any kind of conversation at the place. Seems like they mostly are more interested in tying than selling stuff, leading you to the fish or making a new customer/friend. The Saturday crew each time has given me the cold shoulder. Not sure why. I don't wear fancy clothes, drive a fancy vehicle, or boast about myself. Iv'e been in to look at purchasing flies for Missouri streams and a new fishing vest only to be disappointed in selection and advice. It seems you have to invest in all the fly tying equipment, the classes, the books, before you are even allowed to go fish or talk in the place. I can only assume they know I'm not a regular, I don't tie my own flies and therefore they choose not to make any kind of effort to break the ice. Iv'e tried several times with asking about stream fishing in Missouri. I know it's typically a Saturday when I stop in, but for someone who works longer hours than banking hours, its difficult to get there during business hours during the week... And forget about any kind of online catalog to order from. However, from what Iv'e witnessed, and heard for those that have an opportunity to begin with them, enter their close knit story circle, or don't care about staying on top of the latest gear the experience seems to be good. Bottom line, drop 400 dollars or so at any store in the business world and everyone is your best friend. Come in looking to spend 40 dollars, ask about the recommended best fishing places or flies and most places will give you the cold shoulder and tell you to not let the door hit your behind on the way out. **With all this negative stuff said about both, you have to visit both shops to have your own experience, as everyone has a different take on things and different needs. I should just be thankful we have a few options in St. Louis than just the national chains or only online sales.**

Iv'e noticed a bald eagle nesting on the upper Meramec. Nice to see such a majestic creature first hand. It's comforting to know science and conservation have some success stories and some good news from time to time.

With enough funding and interest, just about anything is possible. Improving the Meramec river's water corridor is a huge challege, based on several years of harsh weather patterns and sheer numbers of people living near and using this resource and its tributaries. MDC and other agencies and groups can and do conceivably sustain the upper Meramec and its tributary creeks, streams, etc. Many advocates say its not enough, but there is only so much funding and resources to go around in the entire state. The approach may arguably be considered spotty and concentrated at state parks, allow for degradation approach, vs the more western US proactive approach which includes in their plans to sustain and restore to pre-pioneer or settler times. Many western states take this proactive, sustainable and improvement approach which incorporates restrictive, legislative, and zero tolerance policies, to much success. I don't see this happening here in MO anytime soon based on the publics oppinion and politics, but it is great to dream.... However, I believe MDC does a somewhat decent job with what they have to work with and within the legislation they have to work under, and generally speaking reflects the general public's interest on how our watersheds are managed. As with anything dealing with watershed management in this state, there is always a need for improvement. At the present time, the state stocks the vast majority of our waterways to maintain fish numbers. Some minor stream restoration takes place on the smaller creeks, much of which must be done with the cooperation of private landowners. Some education through farming communities, and outreach programs could also be lumped in here, which attempt to work with private landowners to improve stream banks, prevent runoff, and prevent erosion into tributary streams. There are some sucess stories. However, many unfortunate landowners choose not to cooperate or do not know that the state has great programs in place to assist. People have to reach out to the experts to expect any improvement, as the agencies are stretched to the limit these days, and do not actively seek expensive projects to undertake, unless outcry and awareness. The depts are also in the process of educating the public in the form of publishing info and education at this point in Missouri Conservationist and Missouri Resources magazines. They publish success stories every so often of landowners that have transformed their properties into a more sustainable ecosystem. If anyone here does not already get either of these publications, you can sign up online.. The cost is free to Missouri residents. I hope the MDC and other agencies, stream teams etc continue to work toward a more proactive approach in education, promotion and improving our waterways and resources in the state. We all share these resources, hopefully they will have as good if not better health report in 20 years and beyond.

MDC has hosted several programs over the years for youth... You may be able to contact someone through the MDC site for more info... it may take a few days for a response... http://mdc.mo.gov/

More postings and interest in these boat videos or increase in marketing could make these boats take off in this part of the state.... all it takes is a few boats like this and some people with expendable income and no sense of responsibility to make it a tragedy for the rest of us.

I do have at least one river in the state of Missouri that I would be all for any type of reckless boating, or river 4 wheeling.... try the River Des Peres in St. Louis... No backlash from any fishing groups, conservation, MDC, etc. Nice concrete banks and cinder block gravel bars and shallow water to get the boat airborne and get wasted in the process... boat park without floaters, canoes, or fishermen in the waters.... The adrenaline junkies would just have to prove it profitable for M.S.D., and sign release forms.

I'm afraid that the cost of these boats will dramatically drop over the next several years, as competition from other boat and aftermarket manufacturers will drive the cost down to eventually allow for the common person to afford one. Supply, demand and competition...Economics 101.

Blame it all on MDC..... They only act on science, research, current legislation and complaints from the general public and represent the general public. MDC is a state agency. There just doing their jobs. Wonder what studies the MDC had in hand to reason closing crossings and preventing further vehicular traffic in the stream bank? It's pretty difficult to put earth back once it's washed down stream... That's why farmers even know about erosion control and smart folks incorporate contour plowing to prevent it.

I really do not have to provide a study... just need to report the next person I believe is breaking the water regulations the state has set in place... The state and authorities will take it from there for me.

Your quick to judge astounds me...Both are damaging to the smaller waterways in varying degrees.... I'm in no way suggesting all craft or responsible recreation in the waterways be banned, or subjecting myself to either side of being a boat owner, canoe owner, or other. I never suggested you were damaging the river by running a boat responsibly, unless you are pounding the banks, running at an excessive speed for the conditions, or if folks are in the water. Fact is damage isn't limited to whats visible to the human eye, such as ruts left by craft or vehicle. I'm not even really suggesting the ruts in gravel is damage... I'm looking more at sediment, erosion, and suspending sediment in the water itself. Some damage or evidence as small as it may seem can only be measured with instruments, microscopes, etc...and may have a long term affect if repeatedly done over years and months at varying intervals. I used the overstated motor horsepower for effect. Anything that stirs sediment in the river of such a low level can reduce water oxygen levels and water quality. I am not to impressed with many floaters and even waders behavior either, and would venture to say they contribute some sedimentation to the river as well. There are other recreational things that are worse for the water that I won't mention here. But I am in no way against entirely anyone acting within the law and or reasonable behavior while enjoying our waterways. It's not ignorance, ask any person with a degree in the sciences or look up some of the facts based on research utilizing the scientific method... especially hydrology or water quality. You don't have to worm through an engineer's report and research, you just need to look for the scientists underlying main point and be willing to draw conclusions if several agree or argue similar points. All I'm saying is to respect the resources you have before there gone and wondering how to get it back or spending time and money to get it back. I think the state already has a few regulations in place already to limit reckless boating, floating etc Enforcement needs everyone's help in documenting and reporting reckless boating, public indecency, and or public intoxication.

I would agree the law is pretty straight forward, but the logic that it can only be transferred by felt bottomed soles is a little ridiculous... It is probably a legal compromise, as they don't want to begin telling people you have to be barefoot or wearing solid rubber boots in our streams....People wear all kinds of porus stuff to the river that could potentially contain and transfer spores... Spores are likely stirred up the minute someone steps onto the streambed. The new regulation is only a part of the equation to the solution....

I would acknowledge we have jet boats in MO. There are responsible boaters, reckless and in-between. I hope they keep the kind of extreme recreation shown in the video regulated to the most trashed out, lost cause, polluted toilet water rivers, known as the Missouri and Mississippi in this area. The new breed of meth heads skipping over gravel bars and running in creeks or streams at extreme low levels can and should be prosecuted by law...All it takes is a phone call......This level of motorboat operation is no different than witnessing a drunk weaving all over the road or traveling to fast for conditions....They are dangerous to themselves and anyone in their boat or in the river....a boat is not a license to throw all rules, regulations, decency, safety and common sense to the wind. I am shocked and appalled at such a lack of understanding and respect for ecology, biology, botany, and one's own self. It's sad these folks have not learned or applied anything in their lives other than how to get a thrill out of trashing out personal, private and possibly state or federal property. The act is comparable to watching someone dump crap in community drinking water laughing, and then proceed to hand a glass of it to you and me to take a drink. All it takes to get these folks prosecuted is for someone to witness, report, or for an agent or officer to be in the right place at the right time.... If anyone witnesses this kind of behavior on our streams get their boat sticker or plate number and report it anonymously to water patrol or the sheriff at the least. Boat plate numbers are required to be clearly posted at the bow on every boat that has a motor in the state of MO. If no boat plate, get your best description or camera phone snapshot of the boat, boat motor and person operating the craft, or even vehicle description and or trailer plates if this happens near a boat launch. Write your representatives if you would like to see this level of ignorance curbed on our waterways.... The only way our reps know an issue exists is if someone brings it to their attention. Reps don't typically actively look for legislation... trust me, I live across the street from one, and many are not well versed in what happens on the MO waterways. I'm typically not one for more legislation and rules, but history tells me these select group of adrenaline/meth punks won't go away unless they are run out. Its a violation of our rights they are allowed to destroy our streams, endanger our children or families and help degrade our future camping, fishing, floating trips. Stand up and do something about it. Please report it, as their are no consequences for doing the right thing or be a good steward to our land, waterways and natural resources. Don't let them ruin your vacation or recreational area. All it takes is a phone call.. Case in point: True story: A friend and I witnessed a weaving drunk driver throw a beer bottle at another vehicle at night on hwy 270 several years ago around 10:00p.m.. I sped up and got the plate # and good description of the vehicle and contacted the local police as soon as I reached my destination... The cops ran a trace and drove to the individuals house across the city at 3:30a.m. They hauled the individual in at that time and the person was prosecuted. They also had to pay for all damages to the other persons car, which totaled more than $3000. They could have killed someone. Long story short, cops and authorities do care... they just can't be everywhere all the time...nor is it efficient to have water patrol running up and down the rivers everywhere all the time...Eyewitness and proactive civilian reports are effective, and do not require additional regulations or cost taxpayers. This action hit the jerks wallet, right where it is noticeable and I didn't spend more than 10 minutes of my time. Please, if you care about the quality of your future experiences on your waterways, do your part, it only takes a call and a couple of minutes for a piece of mind.

I believe I have fished Blue Spring Creek near Sullivan before... If it is the creek im thinking of along Highway N it is always way to warm this time of year....chock full bank to bank of local people playing in the fishing holes too.... way to full to even cast in without hooking someone. Mostly a winter stock fishing creek... Its been a while since viewing Onandoga spring, but it was always much cooler water and a deeper overflow pool.... Just way to overgrown and not managed as a trout pond.

the best thing to do is outlaw them before they can become a problem.... after all, once they appear, they are harder to get rid of after the fact..... No need for this type of boating in Missouri. What is the difference between this and vandalism or property damage? Its no different than running a 1000 horsepower swamp buggy or jacked up truck through the river. This is the same rough crowd that thinks 4 wheeling through everyone's state parks and private property is o.k. and doesn't harm anything. I can just picture the stream damage in the wake of this new type of boating.... These people should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Hope Missouri residents, state agencies and enforcement do not put up with this crap.

Regulation is only an attempt to prevent the spread.... it's not a end all solution to the problem. Education, prevention plan, eradicaton plan, common sense, further unbiased research, and just plan old cooperation to help prevent ecological disasters can go a long way.... Better get to work on spreading the word to floaters and partiers as this is the crowd that will be the most difficult to reach and have cooperate. Hope didymo has a natural virus or disease that wipes it out similar to that of what attacks our other plants and algaes without further affecting our waterways.

Any new opportunity for special management trout or smallmouth fishing in this state would be great....

10-20 times per year....I talk about going fishing more than I actually can get away anymore.....but all that may change if work goes to furlow..... then the excuse will be cost of gas to get to the streams will cost too much.....doh!

we need the water throughout the west and midwest bad... Praying for rain soon....

willing to divide?? how much per acre?

Seems like we were all better off back in the days of smaller local businesses and stores.... days before the big box stores. I was never approached at any non-chain store for credit cards, vacations or anything else for that matter.... I'll stick to ordering online... saves fuel, mileage on the vehicle and even time. I can even catch an episode of swamp people or mythbusters while ordering via the internet.