Feathers and Fins

The best BIG FISH or ANY SIZE FISH catching thing there is, is LIVE BAIT! The people wanting fish for the "spa" use live bait and yet somehow we have managed to keep giant fish in lakes for all these years! The bait that was notorious for catching so many of the California Monster Bass was Crawdads. Those lakes do not come even close to size in compare with many lakes across the country and certainly not even close to the White River Chain of lakes yet they still somehow produce double digit fish regularly. Honestly most people I have met that want to keep fish for eating want smaller size fish as they believe those are the best eating size. But here we have what I said way back in this thread " People wanting to ban the rig period" Whats next a ban on live bait or a ban on double hooks. The fish still have to be found, the color and size of bait has to be found, and the fish still have to bite the thing.

Chief, Im with you on eating, I keep alot of fish each year and game, from deer to quail and fish. We do not buy alot of meat because we are able to hunt and fish. I preffer it to store bought because I know where it came from and it is fresh. When i was growing up other kids would look at me strange as my lunches were Dove, Quail, Pheasant, Deer etc. They thought I was strange , now they hunt and fish and have told me they wished they had that.

Lifetime License here, It is something that IMO everyone should get, you never have to worry about it expiring again and you are contributing to the resource.

From a purely game regulation stand point It shouldnt be to difficult. Remove the RED WHITE AND BLUE and go with a simple system. X Location is to be catch nad release only and list all those areas. The rest of the waters are a P and T fishery. Put the Brown trout regs at 22'' inch minimum length with only 1 per day per angler and the rainbows do a slot of 4 fish between 10'' and 19'' and allow for 1 fish over 20'' to be kept that would make it easy to remember. Lets use Crane and Taney for examples. Crane Creek would be assigned the PROTECTED status allowing for catch and release only. Taney would be assigned the Put and Take status allowing for 1 brown per angler over 22'' and 3 rainbows 1 of which may be over 20'' Confusion solved. Confusing regs are a problem for the public and enforcement.

Justin the "White Man" excuse doesnt hold water with me. Yes it was true at one point but the same problem that caused it then still causes the concerns to this day. GREED!

Chief and Eric you both brought up two points I’ll quote below, But all of have failed to see one if not the biggest concerns and points in management. Gents as I have been reading the post to this thread and in a thread about my home water where Al has also shared about his there is something underlying that is more troubling to me then regulations on slot size or bag limits. Chief yes more and more people Catch n Release then ever in this Countries history and that is in large part due to the Media as well as the availability of fish to be bought in stores. That can be traced back to earlier in this century to refrigerated transportation methods. People just don’t need to catch and keep the wildlife as they once did. Eric your point is well founded in as much as trout are not native yet they are here and are a viable resource now so regulation is in order as they have now become part of the ecology of the waters they are in. They are a viable food source, viable recreation source and a major source to the economy of the surrounding areas. So yes they do disserve protection. But what I don’t see near enough of is and what is troubling is the amount of effort our DNR agencies place on regulations of the wildlife yet place little regulations in protecting the lands and waters. We have all seen the trash left on the banks and see the runoff from farms and ranches. We can regulate the wildlife all we want but if there are not stricter regulations and enforcement of them to protect the lands then this will all be moot. Pollution be it trash or pesticide or fertilizer is more a threat to our waterways than any under or over harvest of the fish on them. Before people worry about the limits they need to worry about the lands. Or we won’t need to worry about the limits on fish and game.

Sounds like both our home waters suffered fates they did not diserve.

Chief, I believe much has been lost on the art of fishing and hunting. There is a lot of blame to be given to the media ( hunting fishing shows ) When I was growing up I remember well the one show we had on a weekly base (The Outdoor Life) I will never forget the beginning introduction to the show. I think from the early 90’s shows started to focus more on the amount of fish caught and the size as well as the size of animals killed then about the hunt itself which has breed a new type of hunter and fisherman. Those who think numbers and size are the defining and definitive standard to the day. People now believe more it’s about size and numbers then the experience. I know there are guys who still think catching a 4 inch wild trout on a small midge or dry fly find more enjoyment from that then catching any 20lbs Brown trout, I know there are still guys that think a day spent taking in the beauty of nature even if they get no game or catch no fish put more value to that then a million dollars. But those guys are quickly becoming extinct just like the dodo bird. It is something I think about often as I love reading the stories of Hemmingway, Gray and so many others, you don’t read what they wrote you experience it in the descriptions of the paintings of words they wrote that you could see and smell those areas in your mind. I’m betting you grew up and others here experiencing that. It is what we had and our role models. We wanted to experience that our self. Today we see show after show of Monster Whitetails and giant fish or large numbers of them. That seems to be the role models for today’s sportsmen. They are setting a bar to be met and goals not of the experience but of the harvest. We had the fathers of conservation as our role models so to speak. Today’s personalities are the role models of selling a product and the harvest more so than the experience. You want to know what Fred Bear would say: I have this link saved and read it often. I think Fred speaks better than I can http://www.fredbear-online.com/quotes.html Fourth one down I think is the best medicine and the answer to your question.

Chief bare with me on this one: I have been a trophy fisherman for years for lack of better words. I grew up in the monster bass country and 8lbs started to become very common place. My trophy hunting came in on the size yes but to do it with the lightest line possibly. I watched many guys going out and throwing 65lbs braid for bass and other game fish. I had to ask myself where is the skill or art in that? For myself I wanted more I wanted to be able to catch a large fish on the lightest possible line and to that end I feel gratified When you brought up “raising the bar” the first thing that came to my mind was just that, Trophy fish are earned by giving them every possible advantage in their favor. Hooking them is one thing but when the fights on I want to know it’s been my skill at playing a fish that landed it. I want to know it’s my knowledge at finding them that caused the hook-up and I want to know it’s my knowledge of the forage base that gave me the insight to pick the best rig, lure or bait to bring it all together. Anyone can manage for monster bass, Drop a bunch of Florida Strain LMB in Tablerock or Taney and in 8 years you will see monster bass. But then again people may want to up the size limit then. Management by trained biologist should be what dictates Size and Bag limits. But the Bar should be measured by IMO the skill of the angler when the odds are stacked against the angler.

Nice looking flies Duane, I may have to steal your idea and super size them a bit. Im betting I can get some stripers on saturday to go for flies. Surface feeding stripers are suckers for flies and those look like lolly pops.

9.99$ for the A-rig at Hook Line and Sinker. 2.00$ for 5 jig heads 1/4oz and a 20pack of 4 inch pearl white slugo's or jerk baits for 3.29$ and your good to go. Na I had to work today, just stopped of at the parking lot to do my paperwork in my rolling office. I thought about going over to Lake Atlanta but as I have nothing on my schedule tomorrow I wanted to see if there was anything going on. I did have the 4wt in the truck as usual but no way was I taking on the stripers I was seeing boil they were good 15 to 20+ pnd class fish from the washing machine swirls i saw.

But did Duane catch any is the million dollar question...

Quick update. im sitting in PC parking lot doing my paperwork looking across the bouy line... Pssstttt there seems to eb some hungry stripers in the area and not a soul in the parking lot... I wonder if my wife would be mad if i go home and hook up the boat and come keep the stripers company... Wilson, Quil, Stump one of you guys needs to come say high to them. lol.

Jd it was in response to this post: I have seen too many cheap guns go off by dropping them, as I said even my 1911 and 686 ( 686 being a revolver) I’ve seen it happen. The Glock it doesn’t happen with! The abuse they put those guns through to insure they don’t go off without pulling the trigger and the abuse they put them through to make sure they go off when you want them to is what I was referring to. Would I put mine through that? NO, but it’s nice to know if it did go through it, it would still work when needed.

Thankl you gentlemen it was a truly great place, Al, what was this name of the place you are talking about. And like your place the Salton Sea unfortunately has changed for the wourse from what ive read. Its a shame.

I am just curious as to why the Brown Trout would diserve protection of this magnitude? They are not native, They are breed in captivity for release, making them a put and take resource. Dont get me wrong I love to catch big fish and wouldnt mind seeing them with a larger minimum size restriction to enhance the trophy availability of the species. I dont keep trout as a rule, however restricting a put n take species beyound size and keep limits seems to defeat the purpose of a put n take resource.

Stump I actually do it with braid and with mono, done it for so long either i cant feel it or ive just got so sensitive i know how much thumb presure i can apply. The reels I use only have a tension knob, years and years of saltwater fishing those reels i found hold up and less things to go wrong.

Nope Carping is common in Europe lol... Ive fished for them for many years and yes with a fly pole. Ive said it many times they are the freshwater bonefish or as the author said Golden Ghost paying homage im sure to the Silver Ghost of saltwater flats around the world. San Juan worms work well as to ants, berries and a host of other lure presentations. I use both my 8wt and 4wt depending on size of carp in the area. The most silent approach is best. I have spent 30 minutes slowly wading up to a school as to not spook them only to have my first cast do it. When they are tailing it will take everything you have not to move to fast or put the fly on them. They are IMO as much fun as Bonefish, Permit and Redfish to catch.

If your going to cast rigs that weigh 2 to 4 ounces here is some hints. First this is for reals with a tension knobs such as on Cardiff's, calcuttas. jigmasters etc. First thing I always did and do is take the reel apart and remove oall the grease. I then replace it with vaseline < Personal Prefferance > You want to loosen the tension knob so the rig can be dropped from full extension over your head and the spool will stop when the rig hits the ground. Practice doing this awhile using your thumb to control the play out of line. After you get the feel for it you can loosen the tension knob as far as possible. I two hand cast all the big baits and use my thumb for tension needed, it takes time to learn how but you can increase casting distance and accuracy and not have backlashes or reel going BOOM. If you are by yourself in a boat you could do a modified English pendulum cast. I warn you though dont do it with others in the boat. Its known to be the most powerful cast on earth. I have used it for many years and the distance you get is ungodly.

I have a feeling there will be several OAF people at the tailwaters this weekend. Weather looks like it wil be perfect for working from Holiday to the 62

I saw Phill's poll and it reminded me of where i grew up and thought I would share it with you all. It was a magical place a beautiful place, yet at the same time a scary place. The morning fog some days was only 10 feet you can walk a levee and look across it like a medieval battle scene; it even smelled like death with the decomposing earth around. But this place produced vast amounts of game to pursue and fish to catch. Nighttime temperatures often dipped to freeze and daytime highs could be in over One Hundred degree’s. This place to me was home though. The morning sun was unbelievable to those who have never seen it dancing across not only the sky and the bottom of the clouds but the water. The mountains surrounding it would catch its early rays and the different ore in it would show many colors as if someone was painting them as you just sat and watched. Greens, yellows, oranges, blues and purples as if all colors of the rainbow did not want to be left out of the scene. Fish were jumping and boiling on baitfish all around. Small shore birds darting in every direction quail calling in the distant sage and mesquite. It was often hard to concentrate on the ducks that were coming in at you like guided missiles. Pintail were so thick some days you could have used a butterfly net it seemed to get them. Teal flew so close and so hard I actually had my hat nicked by more than one. The Canada and snow geese could always be heard but were difficult to hunt. The area was certainly not for the novice to hunt it could take your life. There were many perils to this area from sink holes that only a trained eye could see underwater there were old tractors cars and building parts, worse of all old farm equipment that barnacles made sharper then when they were new, they could cut you to ribbons in a brush of the skin. Deep drop offs were another problem for any who dared to wade this area. Your gun and gear was in just as equal a danger as your body, Salt weed and salt water would quickly rust anything metal and the muck could jam even a single shot shotgun. Nothing was safe or protected. Yet every year countless people braved the area, they did it for the sheer number of waterfowl that could be found here. Now growing up with a club in this area I was afforded the luxury of watching my elders and learning from them when we chose to go out of the pits and jump shoot the open areas where those less fortunate hunted. We knew the area and were able to walk areas where others dared not because of the dangers. As I grew to a man I enjoyed the freelance much more than sitting in the pits and often was found wading the areas. I will never forget people stopping me and telling me how dangerous it was and then watching me casually walk out to a point a half mile from shore never getting more than knee deep in the water. They seemed amazed as they had tried getting there just to be turned around by waist deep muck. To me there was no danger but this was from being shown a old submerged road bed by my uncles when I was younger. It zigged and zagged and you had to know its path or be over your head quickly or stuck in the muck. The mornings always started off the same, the old men were up first making coffee and a breakfast of bacon and eggs. They would wake the rest of us up one by one and we would take a shower to rinse off the sweat from the night’s sleep and wake ourselves up. It only took about a half hour just perfect time for breakfast to be finished. Everyone regardless of hunting the club or going out on the big water or freelancing the out of club area always sat down for breakfast together. It was a tradition that all family and friends be there and none would dare disrespect that. We hunted the early morning for waterfowl usually done shooting by Eight A.M. we would return to the clubhouse and clean the mornings game. We traded in our duck guns for smaller light weight more manageable light guns to chase the quail we had been hearing all morning. We did this till noon when we returned to the clubhouse where by then the old men had cooked a lunch of duck fit for kings from the mornings shoot. We would sit around laughing and eating this bounty with our friends and family. No matter how hot or cold it may have been a quick step in the clubhouse after lunch would find many of us sleeping on the floor belly’s full and very content. The old men were always playing pea knuckle or poker while we slept with all eyes on the barometer for if it started to fall we would all be woken as if a fire was in the clubhouse. They knew if it fell the Corvina would be biting and when it did fall, it was like a firehouse alarm bell going off. All men man the boats as we would launch them to chase those powerful delicious fish. Trolling thin fins and rapalas or going to the drainage canals to catch the small perch and tilapia that inhabited them were part of being there. Corvina big powerful and hard fighting with a nasty tooth to go with the rest of their power was all part of the allure of the fish. One hundred fish per day was not uncommon if you were going after crocker, sargo and tilapia. a few pile worms or red worm and you could have a day of your life. In the evenings it was all about eating freshly BBQ’ed steak and corn on the cob we picked while hunting quail. After dinner we would walk to the North pond only but a few steps from the tables we were eating at and toss our lines in the pond for some of the catfish that swam the water, or get in the old row boat and chase the big bass in it. This was truly a dream place for a young man to grow up around family and friends. A place where you became a man in many ways! I think about this place often and usually end up picking up the phone to call one of the other boys I grew up with. At Forty Years old we are still best of friends from the relationships we made back then. Where so many people have friends for but a few years, we are still friends after over Thirty Years. It was that place and those times that built relationships that last forever. It was that simple place on the North Shore of the Great Salton Sea that memories that will last a life time were made. I thought I might share it with those of you who may never get to visit her.

Jeb Bought me a few of the 9$ A-rigs really liked the fact they had them in two sizes I like the smaller size it will be perfect for using smaller baits. Just finished rigging up 9 diffrent rigs. Now if they will clear the roads I will go play in Prairie Creek this afternoon. But I just took a drive and doesnt look good so far, but what was I expecting from Ardot... Heck Rogers, Sprindale and F-ville still had school. Hope for the kids sake it doesnt get wourse.

He was 60 years young, now returning to the place of his youth. when he was a kid he played in the corn fields during the summer and ran in the wheat fields during spring. Vast fields of golden wheat blowing in the wind. Land that was as wide open as a child's eye at Christmas. He moved from this wonderland with his parents when he was seventeen but always remembered them in his dreams, He grew up and worked in the big city but was a country boy at heart. He raised -Five young children to fine adults. But all the time longed for those days of his youth and playing in the wide open fields. He dreamed of an open pond where he and his best friend helped there fathers build an old blind, the many season they shared hunting ducks and geese. How the sounds of fall nights were filled with migrating geese, and not of jet planes how on the right night with a bright moon shinning you could see their formations. This was what he missed most those trumpeting messengers of the fall. As he packed his home his loving wife so cautious with the china and fine glass he worried he would return to a far different place. He had watched the fields and hills around the big city slowly slip away in to a steel jungle. What once was orange groves and sage covered hills now was concrete and steel. What he wondered what was in store for him when he moved home? Driving the interstate his mind kept second guessing would he find what he left as a boy or would it be yet another urban jungle. He kept reminding himself the real-estate agent promised it was a nice country house they bought, you see they did not have time in the urban jungle to go see the land they just knew they wanted it. He hoped his best friend was still there someplace and his parents old house stood and he could show it to his wife along with paying honor to the small cemetary where his great grandparents and grandparents laid forever peacefully asleep;As they turned off the interstate and on to a long dirt road there were rows of green corn as far as the eye could see and blue sky with clouds dotting it to the horizon. As they continued this road they could see a house with a for sale sign on it and a sold sign sitting on the top. They knew this was their new home. As they came closer they saw an old pick-up truck in the drive and a man about their age sitting on the front porch steps, they believed this was the kind real-estate agent who helped them buy this land. When they got out of their truck and approached him he held out his hand. Not to shake but in it was to old blue marbles and he said My marble is bigger than yours and I can outshoot you on any day. The old man broke in to tears and his knees buckled, Before him was Tim Range his best friend from child hood his friend he lost contact with 30 years ago, here before him was the person all his youthful memories were built around. Both men sat on the old porch tears in their eyes. Bob asked Tim, how did he know? Tim smiled and said your agent is my cousin Mike! When he heard your name and how you use to live here it was all he could do not to bust in to tears from hearing your voice again. When you hung up he called me. These last 6 months knowing your number and not calling has been the hardest thing I've ever done. But come here Tim said with a urnest I must show you something else. Tim walked with him around the corner of the house and there before him was a field full of cars and tables loaded with food. People all around and voices he knew from his youth. Then he saw it an old Oak Tree and a picket fence around it. That tree and fence he knew! he fell to his knees his heart was beating hard a lump in his throat tears pouring down his face like a mighty waterfall as they hit the ground. He looked to his old friend…Who said yes! this was your parents and grandparents home. The house was destroyed in a tornado many years ago and the road renamed, I bought the property because it to was where I grew up at your mothers table. The graves are still there under that old oak tree. Then he reached in his Levi Jacket pocket and handed him a paper, it simply said on the cover DEED! This is not mine but yours and your families he said as he handed it to him. We took your deposit and and fixed up the house. No more payment is needed this is your house. He walked to the fence and opened the gate, he knelt before these graves his loving wife came and placed her hand on his shoulder, she handed him some flowers they bought on the way in that she told him she wanted to place on the table in their new home. She knew this was the home of his childhood as his friend and called her one day while he was still at work and told her of all this. She bought you see those flowers for these family members who had left this world. He placed the flowers on the graves and stood up. As they walked toward the group of people smiles of joy and a warmth in his heart came over him! He was home… As the afternoon slipped to evening with the hues of red and orange glowing in the sky a song came over the radio "Proud to be an American" the crowd grew silent as they listened to this powerful song. Many of the men were veterans and it meant something to them. As the friends left for the evening he and his wife walked in their new house, fresh paint and wood floors could be smelled and all the furniture they sent a week ahead was arranged neatly. But on the table was one item they had not sent. A picture of his grandparents and great grandparents sitting under the old oak tree sipping a drink. Tim looked at his friend and said I found this after the house was destroyed it sat on my mantel for years where i would look at it often and think of my old friend and his loving family hoping to one day see you again. The days grew cooler and the corn turned to a golden brown as autumn approached. Then one night while the he and his wife sat on the porch an old familiar sound of his youth he heard in the nights cold air. The sound of migrating geese, thousands of them! he ran off the porch and looked toward the sky. In the glow of the full moon he could make out the silhouettes and "V" formations of these wonderful messengers that Fall had arrived. He ran in the house and called his old friend Tim with an excitement in his voice like a kid opening presents that had been teasing him under a tree for weeks before Christmas. His old friends said I heard them you could hear he had a smile on his face even through the cold phone. He knew his friend's heart was racing and the emotions were strong. Tim came over the next day and picked him up. They drove out to an old lake and there before them were thousands of ducks and geese, not three days before this pond was empty, except for a few resident mallards. The season opened the next weekend and these two gentlemen were once again back in the blind of their youth, back where so many memories were made, back where it all began many decades ago back in the same spot and same blind there fathers built together. As the seasons past and years past the Old mans kids moved back to this wonderland. They had grown weary of the big cities and wanted something more for their families. Many a day was spent at Grammas and Grandpas house. Friends and family were always around. The grandkids playing in the fields of winter wheat that all you could see was the heads of the boys with ball caps on and the girl's long hair flowing like the wheat in the breeze. This is the heartland my friends. A place where family means togetherness, a promise is a promise and where "FRIEND" means forever. The old man was home and lived with his wife and family content and happy just to watch the grandkids play in the fields and every fall to hear those messengers fly at night announcing Fall was here and the friends who hunted in the marshes, fields and ponds sharing stories of old times and passing the heritage on to the kids

Snake, Mine doesnt care much about fishing. But pulling her away from the gun counter is always fun, she loves to hunt and shoot so I just planted her there while i shopped. Den, 14.99 while supplies lasted lol... The sales man told me i needed to try them they were great I said I already had and pulled out the cell with a pick of the other night. He went and grabbed 3 lol.. I think i needed a commission for that.

So with it about to become time to start hitting Stripers hard on surface and sub-surface I decided to clean out my tackle boxes and re-arrange them ( specifically design one for the castable umbrella rig ) The bad thing is i was able to create a single box all for the A-rig which took all my soft plastic's and put them in one single tackle box. Which created much more space in my other boxes. I discovered I had a pretty tackle box with nothing left in it after re-arrangement. So off to Academy I went to buy stuff ( we all know you cant have an empty tackle box ) when i got home i found even after re-supply I still had two empty plastic box drawers left. So now its on to BP.com to get more stuff. This dam A-rig is going to cost me alot more than i would normally spend this time of year. Here is the best laugh for the day... While at Academy i hear over the PA ( GET THE HOTTEST BAIT TO COME ALONG FOR FISHING IN YEARS WE NOW CARRY THE A-RIG IN THE FISHING DEPARTMENT GET THEM WHILE YOU CAN ) My wife looked at me and said "do you need some of those" I just looked back and said the ones i have have cost us this trip but ill gladly go get more if you want me to! Err you married guys know the look i got when i said that i bet.