tjm

45°? well I've been doing them all wrong then.

The data was for Kansas. Is your sister's name Dana?

Isn't leader twist most often a leader problem?

@Mitch f Another page on that same site shows how his tests rated different knots and his testing requirements https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/fishing-knots/ with links to each knot in more detail This page on another site describes ways to test lines and knots against each other at home https://www.bassresource.com/fishing/testing-lines-knots.html Knots most often fail either because of damage when tying, slippage under load or one part of the knot cutting into another part. But in my crude testing back in the '80s I also found that hook size and line size needed to match, if the hook wire had too small of diameter in proportion to the line it would tend to "cut" it and if the hook wire was too large for the line there was a greater tendency for the knot to slip. (in testing line against line or knot against knot I tied both to the same barrel swivel) Somewhere out there is a university study done on knot failures a few years ago but a quick search didn't turn it up. Here is a web page that seems to explain knots somewhat https://www.fix.com/blog/fishing-knot-encyclopedia/ One line failure that doesn't get a lot mention is reaction to a sudden force like when the trophy fish "hits like a freight train" (not a problem if you catch small fish like me) and on a UK fly fishing forum devised a test where he fastened multiple 6# lines to the "rafters" in his garage and connected a one pound weight to each then dropped the weights from a few inches to increasing heights until each line broke under the impact. I don't recall which nylon or which fluorocarbon he used or how many he tested in total, but he claimed that in each case the fluorocarbon failed significantly sooner than the nylon. Which matches with the claim that nylon has more stretch than similar sized fluorocarbon, but that claim is not accurate really, both under similar evenly applied loads will stretch 20%-30% before failure, but the fluoro does not rebound from a less than catastrophic stretch like the nylon does, it simply breaks or stays stretched and deformed.

I don't think you can fish a gurgler wrong.

Wrench is right about the fluorocarbon not exactly sinking like leadcore, it's such a tiny bit denser than water that it will float petty well on the "film" until/unless it's caused to break through the surface tension and then it sinks slowly or very slowly depending somewhat on water temperature. He is also right in that a sunken tippet is less visible to the fish, it's why many dry fly users "de-grease" nylon tippets, hence Xink and the mixture of glycerine, cat liter and dish soap. It took me a while to find the abrasion test from years ago that made think fluoro is about the same as nylon in that respect, but it's still active, https://www.saltstrong.com/fishing-tip/fluorocarbon-leader-abrasion-test-vs-mono/

The gold on the map below denotes indigenous populations and the burgundy denotes non-indigenous populations; call it expansion of range or invasion- the flatheads in the Neosho drainage were apparently first stocked in SEKs prior to 1911 and the ones in the Illinois were stocked in NWA about the late 1930s.Both populations expanded downstream to join with the Ar. River population. Interesting animated map that shows the spread. https://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesAnimatedMap.aspx?speciesID=750 Here in the four states corner we would have had channel cats and black bullhead. These drainages also have other indigenous species that differ from the rest of the Ozarks like the Neosho bass, red spot chub and others, I believe.

how many do you suppose go unreported?

Surprising that no one had caught any of them over a 5 year time span.

Apparently just invasive in the Neosho and Illinois drainage as they were native over most of Ar. and Mo. including the White River, per USGS. Although 35 years or so ago my Uncle went on a rant about how Bella Vista Village had stocked so many channel cats that they were displacing the 'native' flatheads in L.Sugar Creek. He swore there "didn't use to be any forked tailed catfish in Little Sugar."

I should have said PE braids, but I tend to call it all Spectra, and forget that much of it is Dynema. I put some on a few fly reels a year or so ago, although I've never seen the backing except when changing lines. I've used heavy nylon squiding/fishing braid in my chalk boxes and for layout lines for about 50 years on all kinds or commercial and residential construction and fraying from abrasion has never been a thing. It makes a lot cleaner line than twisted string and wastes less chalk. Tests that I've read about found very little difference in abrasion resistance between nylon monofilament and fluorocarbon monofilament regardless of the marketing claims, but since I wasn't having abrasion problems, I didn't think too much about it.

I caught and ate lots of hornpout in RI, mostly in trout streams. My mother in law liked them and eel more than most kinds of fish. Both will take a fly. I saw a few others that took them too using bait, but as you said not many fished for them, but then I never saw many people fishing fresh water at all in RI or SEMA. Not many bullhead in the local waters, that I have seen. And in looking up the catfishes I just discovered that flatheads are invasive in this area.

Established in 31 drainages in Fl (about 2/3 of the state) failed in California, Connecticut, Georgia, Massachusetts, and Nevada. Interestingly banning them resulted in more releases- "Additional introductions in Florida, supposedly purposeful releases, were made by fish farmers in the Tampa Bay area, Hillsborough County in late 1967 or early 1968, after the state banned the importation and possession of walking catfish (Courtenay and Stauffer 1990). " (and from aquarium owners too) If you want to get rid of an imported pet species, collect them before banning possession of them.

I guess it's because I've always used nylon that I never noticed the abrasion problem. Good to know about the spectra braid as I had considered loading a spinning reel with it.

You can find web pages that say fish eggs can survive on the feet of birds and mammals as well as pass through the digestive system and hatch from the feces. I'd be more apt to think a human used a bucket to introduce bait to those ponds not knowing there were no fish present to eat the bait.

I would have thought that if the line was in contact with a cable hard enough to abrade it that the lure or fish would be hung up by it. Of course that's a kind of fishing that I've never done.

How often is abrasion a factor? I've had stream fish run under slab rocks and around drowned trees numerous times and don't recall many abraded leaders. I know abrasion resistance is always a big advertising factor with companies like Maxima even advertising that their Chameleon is more abrasive resistant than their own Clear and that their Clear is more abrasion resistant than their Ultragreen, but it just doesn't seem to happen that often to me.

Towendolly At 40-50' with a bare line I would be taking inch long strips or using a hand twist retrieve to purposely prevent drift. Across and up cast followed by a twitching retrieve "swims" the nymph as it moves downstream, as well as keeping the line taut. I think bare line nymphing requires the line be taut at all times, drag free drift (and suspension method) requires a degree of slack at all times. I'll certainly agree with the second thought, and I'll take it further, I don't think anyone ever gets a "drag free drift" except on the surface. And further still, I don't think fish would take a lure that was actually "drag free" dead drifting; fish as predators respond to living prey, insect larvae that we imitate with our flies are all moving within the water showing life. Sticks, pebbles and other debris would normally have a "drag free" or "dead" drift and are largely ignored by the fish. Movement relative to the water is necessary to indicate life. The bobber/indicator/suspension device method of nymphing works so well simply because even unskilled beginners can achieve some movement relative to the water flow due to the drag induced by the bobber. I believe it was Frank Sawyer, a pioneer in euro nymphing, who developed the idea of "induced take" accomplished by moving the fly up and away from the trout, Jim Leisenring caused his wet flies to rise in the water column by pausing the rod, my long ago mentor insisted that all wets (including nymphs) needed to have some motion imparted to them, even midge pupae on still water. Split shot as used by Humphreys change the fly speed relative to the water each time they "bounce" off the bottom, "leading" the fly with the rod as practiced by Ted Towendolly, Ted Fay, Chuck Fothergill and the current generation of euro nymphers moves the fly slightly faster than a "drag free drift" but it catches fish. Even a fine leader hanging vertical in the water column will cause some "drag" (or life) to the nymph due to the varying current speeds within the water column.

Just an opinion, but, I don't think the fish we commonly target are intelligent enough to distinguish between one line and another, I think that they can see all lines and just don't have the cognition to associate the line with the bait. I say this based on not only things that I've read about fishes' ability to see and distinguish both very small items and colors, and on experiments I did back in the late 1970s using trout in very clear slow water, live worms, and numerous sizes and colors of nylon monofilament as well as a couple of nylon braids. I used two or three lines with live bait and just enough weight to keep the bait on the bottom where I could watch it, each line a different size or color from the others and line sizes ranging from clear 1# mono through high vis 20# mono with tan braid and black braid included. I found that trout would most often chose the worm that was on the least visible (to me) line, but given a choice between baits on only highly visible lines would still take a live worm. That they would chose the worm on 1# test clear nylon over 3# Chameleon and that on 3# Chameleon over the worm on 20# yellow Stren did not surprise me, because the received wisdom says that trout are leader shy. But, that presumed leader shy fish would still take the bait when presented on 45# braided squiding line did change my beliefs on just how leader shy fish really are. The trials lasted over several weeks of summer mostly in the same stocked mill pond, with different lighting and weather conditions. In actual fishing conditions, I think suppleness counts more than size, test strength or color; a stiff line restricts the movement of the bait. I've also found bass and other species to be tolerant of the most highly visible lines, in moving water- I don't fish lakes enough to know. Do your own experimenting some time, I'd like to know if other's result match mine. Of course if I have a fishless day I can always say "my tippet must have been too big".

Both are used as catfish bait, you ever see anyone just dump a bait bucket?

You may want to ask in this thread, https://forums.ozarkanglers.com/topic/77696-taneyfest-january-262728/#comments

It's bugging me now and I haven't even listened to it. Never was much of a Guthrie fan, father or son. But some of their songs won't leave you alone.

Yeah, Alice takes me back to the high school days. Don't think I've heard it in the past fifty years.

This says "I only know one way and don't want to know any other way." And that is cool, if your " "proper way" is the only method that you practice, you must become very good at it. We all have our quirks, I can't fish any fly under a bobber with a fly rod, or call the point fly a dropper, the dropper is always the fly or flies nearer to the the rod, with the first dropper sometimes called the "bob fly" when fished at or near the surface. I myself prefer to use a single fly but I rarely fish it properly. However, on the occasions when I feel like messing with a dropper, it's almost always two droppers and the point fly. My question was probably misconceived, because of my lack of bobber skills I never think of that method, but if I consider it, with a bobber taking the place of the bob fly and another dropper plus the point fly under it it makes a three fly configuration. I think I answered my own question, the fourth fly tend to make the rig unwieldy.

I'm curious about reasons for fishing two rather than three as in the traditional wet fly rig?