MoCarp

Excellent White bass, some crappie and..of course LMB..some of the Biggest bass I ever caught were in the coves near big M, ....down deep you can catch big trout as they wash out from RR and below beaver during early summer under the lights, about the only way to fish once the boaters and jet skis come out with the warm weather.....walleyes in feb, can pick up some if we have water in RR and towards Beaver dam....Aunts creek some some fair smallmouth....a spot or 2 for big common carp, but leave the boat home for that

<--hands Tim a drink of his choice.......Common carp seem less adapted to a Ozark type stream, they are there... but you will catch more redhorse, buffs and other suckers more..at least the ones I have fished..are they in the streams?...yes sir... Not sure about NY politicians wheeling and dealing but Julius A. Poppe from California was the earliest carp importer... not going after any tourneys.....a wonderful day fishing, nice weather, a few big fish, beautiful scenery.......

I am not a big Tourney fan ether you can blame carp all you want, they are used to being the scape goat to a variety of ills...but the bulk of common carp's diet is plant matter, being an omnivore they will eat a crawfish that scoots away while they are foraging, even slurp a mayfly emerging on the surface.....I have even seen them scavenge fish scraps from areas where people clean fish, in lakes where they occur, zebra mussels are a major component of a carp's diet, but if you fished in a carpy area with a big crawdad on your hook and 2 foot away boiled field corn..the corn would out produce the crawfish 100-1..how do I know? Tried many times to get the carp bait of all baits....perhaps a corn fly???? or this time of year an acorn fly.... Sorry Tim those carp were there long before your time, and long before your daddy, even long before you grandfather..and certainly long before the loss of the little crustaceans, Because Common Carp were, stocked on purpose starting In 1877, by the U.S. Fish Commission The common carp are still stocked by many state agencies, heres one in AZ that stocked 70k carp bought from a fish hatchery in Arkansas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oaHLMmaC_E <--tempe Town Lake, AZ

So you are saying killing all the carp in the Missouri river will make it run clear? buffalo feed the same ways...turbidity is more of a function of substrate composition...I am working on a quantifiable report on boat wake caused turbidity and erosion I can post hundreds..below is what you can expect....so you can imagine how may dumpsters you would need with 50 boats..much less 900 let me ask, would you eat any fish that layed in the bottom of a boat all night? as far as the below pic and thread on a Bfing site.. I thought the limit on buffs was 20...prob more than one guy shooting though..ether way..never gets enforced..just like shoot and release... http://bow.fishingcountry.com/forums/showthread.php?68218-Finally-got-to-break-in-the-Airboat!-Hell-of-a-night!

I agree scientific studies need to be done....but as far as changes in Regulations, thats what many said about Texas, "never happen"..yet here we are over a decade with trophy regulations in place in Lady Bird Johnson Lake, and the most restrictive limits ever will be in Connecticut for 2018, many many others in play in several states http://www.ct.gov/Deep/cwp/view.asp?a=2696&q=580166&deepNav_GID=1630 <--ever see THAT on a state F & W before? https://tpwd.texas.gov/fishboat/fish/action/fishregs2.php?water=0737 <--Texas Regulations https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVKqYrDTULk&t=200s <--Texas Parks and Wildlife [Official] Promotion of Buffalo & Common Carp Fishing in lake Fork Texas https://www.facebook.com/PaFishandBoat/photos/pcb.1709032149167427/1709031209167521/?type=3&theater <--Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission [Official] I disagree a few waters here in the Ozark's could benefit of a Texas like regulation of say one fish over 30" per day on common carp and buffalo Yet buffalo are dumpsterd by the 1000's ... I agree, the tiny lobsters need more study, yet they can't generate a few billion dollars each year fishing for them, perhaps thats why they go to wanting in interested parties to studies Perhaps, but "they" spend Billions on angling for common carp, the potential of which is barley realized here in the USA..if it was sniff as popular here as there... it would be 100s of billions not the pip squeak 10 billion there No-one would ever blame carp for moving gravel...Buffalo and all sorts of native suckers and chubs feed the same way common carp do...ironically commons don't seem to compete as well in Ozark like streams, only place I ever saw very many is where elk river meets Grand downstream from #10 bridge...ironically I have seen more Crawfish in that stretch than in indian and big sugar perhaps I have been toying with the Idea to return to University too complete and further my studies, but @ 57 thats a lot of work for an old man...perhaps helping some up and coming grad student that needs funding for a thesis at least a "pro carp" one.....Nash, Korda, Kryston, E.S.P and other UK tackle Giants might see it as a down payment on future billions Did you know one of the most expensive Daiwa reels sold is for Carp? or that Daiwa sold Bivvies?

I agree, my point is that its study worthy, all good abstracts start with quality assumption gleaned from anecdotal evidence, I am not some goober pulling caca out of thin air, I spent several years in university learning methodology... I agree....I don't just fish for carp....and do not want a trophy carp pond at the expense of great "other" fishing.....having both is a requirement to produce Trophy commons....its like trying to convince a flat farther the earth is round..technically a spherical egg/ovoid.....If I get salty it because assumptions can get used to effect policy....

better bring your A game, or even a dink common will JACK-YOU -UP....

and for all you Fly fisherman..ever catch a 10 pound brown on a fly? wish you could have that fight every trip? how about 20-30 times in a day?

here is my better argument is fish that do this....

like most who start losing an argument alway stoop to personal attacks....its no coincidence huge even RECORD size LMB come from waters that produce huge common carp and buffalo where both exist together....that Yatch slaps the classic argument that "carp = poor game fishing".......and also no carp/buffalo = great game fishing ......it even seems the REVERSE may be true and is worth a legitimate look..... I get questions about carp angling and interest from this forum or people direct people to me from this forum so some-ones buying how fun it is to do this kind of fishing..... and show me one fact I have posted not-linked to the source? you can try and draw your own conclusions from the data as you see fit. I lucked into the nutritional information on carp vs panfish vs trout, I suspect someone right now is planning on growing 15 pound LMB on a diet of cheap baby carp....in a climate that can't feed them rainbow trout (like southern Missouri) wouldn't that be a kick in the pants? I have spent a great deal of my life volunteering, helping others with my own personal time and treasure & will continue to do so.....I and others like me are not going anywhere I keep this quote I snagged from a bow-fishing forum, it motivates me when people like you question my credibility....I have no ego to bruise, and I just dig in and work that much harder..... "If we let MoCarp tell people how much fun it is to catch carp, Everyone will want too, then we will be outnumbered & they will treat them just like bass & walleyes"

I link sources for every claim I make...and you outed your self in your saltyness, and attempts to silence the issue......you have a vested interest with the status quo of Bfing... fish as once Reviled as the alligator Gar, is getting protections....and the number of anglers are tiny..what do you thing will happen with the multi billon euro carp business???....again whats eating all the baby buffalo and common carp?

If several of Taneys Trout Guides tell you trout fishing has become horrible, and has been getting worse, and they spend over 300 days a year on the water, because they think a huge catch and kill trout tourney each year where 287k pounds of trout are killed in ONE WEEKEND, its like saying all the crappie harvested on TR from on weekend tourney is the whole harvest number when its 100 fold......it is disingenuous of you to poo poo those carp guides observations, even though anecdotal, come from years of on the water observations http://news.jrn.msu.edu/capitalnewsservice/2017/08/16/anglers-target-bowfishing-for-carp-decrease/ http://michiganradio.org/post/northern-michigan-fishermen-wrestle-over-catching-carp

ROLMAO.........I do post on lots of other subjects......don't get me started on Orachalcum the metal of the Gods, Plato, Graham Hancock and ancient civilizations

Ignore wrench he thinks you mean these kinda flys.........just give you the business wrench..... I looked long and hard for a pants fly and carp but to no avail!

Stockton can smash even the biggest boats, no matter though just watch the weather...have a plan....

Why so salty then at the possibility of potental new regulations on harvest of common carp and buffalo? perhaps, however I pose the question, and no study has been done on Ozark highland lakes as to what eats common carp/Buffalo eggs/larva/YOY? "Common Carp are not always invasive"*.... Dr Prezemek Bajer Phd, University of Minnesota*..... he basically says in hypereutrophic lakes is where common carp (and buffalo that feed the same ways) can cause issues...Crappie a beloved fish in our area can be a bane by overpopulation, in a sense any fish can be a problem in some waters https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P58Hjr3T6sU EXACTLY! the fact that a YOY bluegill and carp look very close to size and body shape...in digested form its difficult to know what the contents are.... there are ways, but it will take a more taxonomic approach to ID-ing whats eating all those baby carp/buffalo.....walked right into that one didn't you slappy? perhaps Korda or one of the other big time carp tackle companies in the UK can fund a study...perhaps I can convince ACS or CAG to pony up some $ as a stronger argument hows this 1) how many pounds "rough fish" are being harvested in the area lakes? 2) is it having a impact on game fish populations? perhaps a regulation like in TX and now in CT to protect quality common carp/Buffalo fishing? My agenda is simple; To gain acceptance of the carp as an exciting and challenging sport-fish. B) To become better carp anglers, assist others in learning to catch more and bigger carp and encourage others C) To treat the carp with respect, promote the release of trophy-size carp and encourage others to do the same. D) Most of all: go fishing, share with others, and have fun. Euro Carpers are not going away, we have grown exponentially since the implementation of the 33" trophy regulations in Texas, new big carp hot spots have come to the front in Lake fork Texas, Dale Hollow in TN beaver Island carp MI fly fishing and numerous waters in the North Eastern US complete with guides. new carp regs are coming online in many states in 2018. Its not going to be the end of the world, because common carp have been around for 140 years in our area waters. and it won't kill you or even the Bfers to give up a little on some special waters....this isn't a zero sum game, as I have been trying to show with as much hard data as I can find... hope your lunch was tasty

This guy says it far better than I can

Or the next Carrington Event https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859

SpoonDog, Sorry that your sport of Stabbing fish for compost is under a microscope The reality that the the Myth of removing carp and buffalo makes bass or other game fishing "better" is melting away right in front of you. no matter how you slice it common carp have more Lunker building goodness in every bite than even rainbow trout, you cannot wish away. Removing such vast amounts of fish from a biome with out some negative results is a myth, Over harvest has collapsed more fisheries world wide. your bias show through because you say even LOOKING AT the effects of stab harvesting mass qualities of common carp/Buffalo as prey items is "bad science" because its been done before...no study has been done on the effects of over harvesting common carp and buffalo, it has been done on alligator gar and we all know where that has and is leading..the recent aging of the Texas record alligator gar shows it was 60 years old! let me repeat that SIXTY YEARS OLD! unlike a 10 point buck, you can't replace that fish in your lifetime, how old is a 30# common carp? or 40# buffalo? is it bad science to look and see? the definition of science is "the search for truth" if your so confident in the outcome then why do you balk at even looking? how fast would bass fishing collapse on our white river chain of lakes if you removed 287k pounds of bass in just one tourney? and every person fishing for bass tossed everything they caught in a ditch on the side of a road, or in a barrel at the boat ramp? as far as the nutritional value of sunfish....see below..trying to find it for gizzard shad but have not found a source anywhere perhaps because humans don't eat shad preforming a Gastric lavage on any fish to see what they eat can tell you a great deal...... baby carp are usually listed as "minnows" and can often be confused with YOY bluegills or other sunfish in the acid bath of a LMB stomach, perhaps more effort will be made to see what eating all those one inch baby carp and buffalo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT6FErdeslg <--blue cat Gastric lavage yup they find carp https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnUbvF3qqXU <--LMB Gastric lavage can't tell what they are finding

I always get slammed when I suggest the huge amounts of fish that get removed by stabbing methods here is a single Tourney that boasts dumpstering 287k pounds of fish...thats TWO HUNDRED AND EIGHTY SEVEN THOUSAND POUNDS IN ONE TOURNEY 'Over the past 33 years these participants have broken the previous World Record set out in California for the most fish by a bowfishing tournament sixteen times. They currently hold the world mark at an astounding 278,871 pounds!" http://www.glbc-caseville.com

2 hands 4 fish, ..I would say thats normal.....lol..well done fellas!

pic?

common carp seem to get out competed by buffalo in our ozark streams, in spring river and shoal creek I catch more buffalo and red horse than commons at about 10-1 below Truman dam in early spring I have caught just a handful of commons vs hundreds of buffs and native suckers yet in the white river chain its commons, I think buffs can handle the "big river" environment better than commons..but clearwater ozark waters less so, rarely catch a buff in TR/TANEY/BS or Stockton for that matter, but below Stockton dam buffs dominate..could be where they buffs spawn perhaps... No trout are native to Missouri as far as I ever read, browns are a top 10 invasive ironically along with LMB and Common Carp

good points... grass savannah almost park like situation with shortleaf pines prob was much better keeping gravel out of the streams, anyone thats trekked down a steep ozark hillside can tell you the gravel is right under the surface, ...It might be doable to dredge gravel out of historical deep holes even on small creeks and the gravel could be sold to offset costs I know 30 foot freight boats moved around the spring river around carthage before the dams when in, not a chance that could happen today, shoal creek downstream from grand falls is considerably shallower than was in my youth in the 70's ( hard to believe is was over 40 years ago)