ness

Glad it worked out, and glad you posted this. I hope JD sees this.

Sounds like fun, and I'd like to hook up with you guys at some point. But, it that's opening day for KS bird season.

I'm convinced a lot of times snobbery is created in our own heads and is based on insecurity or our own feeling of inferiority. Mark, there ain't no country-club types around here. You're seeing things.

Here's my take: just do what you like, and don't worry about labeling it or comparing to others. Be nice to folks, even when they're a you-know-what.

Jim: I was down at Roaring River too. Found the same thing you did: low, clear water, small fish. I was hoping the rain would cloud the water, but it didn't happen. Dry and dropper seemed to work early on (50-50); tiny white drys later on.

Dammit Eric, I'm proud of ya man! I was skimming over this crap and chuckling but your post caught my eye. Good on you. This is a dead-end.

There are many more spin fishermen talking about elitist fly fishermen than there are actual elitist fly fishermen. I'm not saying there aren't any snobs, they're just a lot more rare than you'd think if all you had were these posts to go on. I don't know anybody who is 100% fly fish and I don't know anybody who looks down on spin fishermen (or bait-users, snaggers, noodlers, or giggers either). Everybody I know dislikes poachers though. I'm 75% or more fly fish, probably close to 100% when I fish for trout. It's a better tool overall for what I like to do -- which is fishing small streams for skittish wild trout. I thoroughly enjoy analyzing a stream, making my approach, laying a dry fly over a likely spot, getting the perfect drift, and fooling a trout into coming up and eating it. Some of my most memorable times are with fish I didn't catch. I love the chess match as much as the tug. It's not about superiority, expensive gear, proper wardrobe, looking the part, being Brad Pitt, dry flies upstream, building a resume, whatever. It's about fishing small streams for skittish wild trout. Yep -- there are snobs out there: I was in a fly shop over the weekend, and I ran into one of them. He was hell-bent on letting everyone in the shop know he'd traveled the country extensively. He had spent the better part of September fishing Colorado and New Mexico. He mentioned a couple places that I have fished, and since I was right there I kinda tried to join in the conversation. Well he wasn't having any of that, and rolled right over me and continued on about how great it was, and how well he'd done. He didn't buy squat, but if he had, by gawd, he announced it would have been Winston or Fishpond. This guy was a snob (or maybe blow-hard is a better description), that fly fished. I suspect his snobbishness wasn't limited to fly fishing. So, really guys -- give us the benefit of the doubt. You can't rightly paint the whole group of us with that brush. If you do, you are really the snobs. Maybe it's a feeling of inferiority driving this? If that's the case, that's your issue. Andy -- PM your list of screen names please. I'd like to see if I'm on it.

Given 1,2,3: average = 2, median = 2 Given 1,2,6: average = 3, median = 2 Sounds like a "median" to me, but I'm just picking nits

Rockbridge and Windrush seem to be making a living off small stocked streams and nice accommodations. Westover also has sporting clays, fly shop, etc. I'm not saying it's easy, because it isn't, it's not unprecedented.

That's a great point! I think part of their original plan was to build the big conference center, and attract the corporate (read: free-spending) groups out there. That's a great plan, but not at all unique to them. Every hotel/resort out there is after that group too. It's competitive, and the pie is smaller these days. I see some parallels to the way it often works with a restaurant. We've all probably seen this: a guy comes in and builds a magnificent place. He buys all the equipment and decorates the place up real nice. He's outta business fairly soon because he spent too darn much borrowed money, and there just wasn't enough time to get the revenue rolling in. The next guy comes in and grabs everything at a discount. But it's always tough to make money with a restaurant so he's gone pretty quick too. By the third go-around, the guy that owns the real estate is tired of churning tenants, and the bank that financed the equipment and other stuff just wants out. So, the third guy gets it all for a song. His expenses are a fraction of what the original guy was spending, (plus he's probably smarter and more frugal), so he's got time to make things work. If he can deliver a decent product and get a clientele built up, he'll do OK. Of course, I don't know financial particulars on Westover. But, what I do know is this: they've got a beautiful, unique property and some great people running it. Those are two big assets that aren't easy to come by. The bank/FDIC won't/can't own it forever, so it's gonna get sold. I'd bet there's somebody out there licking their chops over this one.

I don't know about world class, but it could be a great regional location. Somebody needs to sink enough additional money into it to finish it and market it so that people will come and spend their money. That'd take deep pockets and a lot of patience.

Joe, the FDIC does own the assets it takes in a bank failure, and they'll sell them in one of various ways. I don't know if Westover ended up with FDIC or the new bank, but I would guess the bank didn't take that property -- it's just too big and unique. And even if it did, it's going to be part of the loss-sharing arrangement, so the FDIC will bear most (usually 80%) of the risk. Typically when the owner of a business changes, there will be changes in the business too. Who knows what they'll be? Westover wasn't a money-maker with the investment the previous owner had in it. But there's some point at which the investment is small enough that it could make money. Then there's the possibility of a deep-pocketed owner that doesn't need to make money -- like MDC. It's got a spring-fed stream, rainbow trout and a functional hatchery. Kinda like a small, privately held Bennett. That's what it has to do with fishing.

I think I'd go with the FDIC's announcement. Providence took $600 million-plus in assets, FDIC kept the rest. Loss-sharing would be on the part Providence owns now. That's a fairly common arrangement.

You're laughter-bating, cricket.

Don't we have most of this pissing match going on in another thread? If it's legal, feel free to do it. I'll work around it.

Yeah -- those are pretty cool. Camped with a guy that had one that was about 30 years old. Great weight savings, simple design, worked like a charm. Have you got a lead on them? Biggest downside with a DO is the weight (but, the biggest benefit to cooking).

Man, that's messed up. How do you suppose they determine 'caliber' when they're sending these out? You think they've got lists of medium-caliber fishermen, stream team volunteers or people that have spoken to biologists? Nope. It's a survey, and they sent it to a small sampling of license buyers for the purpose they surely stated on the survey. Folks figured out a long time ago that a random sample of a large population can be just as effective as surveying the whole population, with a lot less trouble and cost. They're looking to learn and possibly make some changes to their management of the resource. Nothing sinister here.

Good on you, Flyflinger. Tying your own flies is part of the whole that makes fly fishing so fun and satisfying. I wish you the best of luck fishing that fly, and hope it's just the first of many to come.

Nice. Tell me more about these terrific breakfasts, please. Always looking fer new ideas.

Yeppers.

Yeah, it's all about the heat regulation. When you're just starting out, it's easy to overdo it. The oven is a large store of heat, so once it's up to temp you don't need to keep adding more and more heat.

http://www.fdic.gov/news/news/press/2010/pr10228.html Well, WE may own it -- it depends on whether that asset gets folded into the new bank, or whether the FDIC holds onto it. Not sure either outcome means anything in particular though -- both the new bank and the FDIC are gonna sell it as soon as they can. But, if the $6.5 million price tag has been out of your reach, whoever has it may be willing to talk.

Like I always say, 'Superior sum vobis quia Latine loqui'

Want me to give you a ride over to the nursing home? Sounds like you're done. I've come to believe there are far more non-fly fishermen talking about fly-fishing snobs than there are actual fly-fishing snobs. As a matter of fact, I can't really think of anyone who is a snob, but this topic comes up all the time here. The different lingo has developed because the processes are different. It's not in an attempt to elevate one method over another. There's a real difference between a typical bobber and a typical indicator. And, that's because the thing on the end of the line is different.

I think the hand of man has been instrumental in the northward migration of the armadillo too. They can make much better time using the highway system, though it is significantly riskier. It will be interesting to see if, over the next few thousand years, natural selection leads to a more car-resistant and/or safety-minded Hoover Hog.