LarrySTL

About the float operators, I don't see the trash, etc being their fault. Its been a couple years since I rented a canoe but when I did, yes on the upper Meramec, the float place told us not to leave trash behind us, not to use the gravel bars or the river to throw our trash away, and gave us a mesh bag and asked us to use it for our trash and "if you pick up anything else too".If we had been inclined to be litterbugs I dont see how the float operator could have told that by looking at us, and I sure dont see how they could have kept track of whether or not we did litter. If I rent a car from Hertz and take it to Mardi Gras at Soulard and empty my trash on somebody's yard and take a piss on somebody else's yard, I sure dont see how Hertz could have known that I was going to do that, nor how they could have prevented it. If I rent the car and then drive to a bar and get drunk, again I don't see how Hertz can/should be responsible if I drive drunk and kill somebody. I dont know if there are limits now on how many canoes a float business can put on the river, but I knew there used to be no such limits. If we are not going to limit the amount of gas the gas stations in Steeleville can sell, or how many customers Hick BBQ serves, I dont see it as fair ( and I suspect legally it might be a governmental "taking" to talk about limiting what really amounts to the number of customers the float places can serve. The float operators bought or built up a legal business and if I do some math they have a lot of money invested in their rental stuff, bought land for their campgrounds, etc. Then after they have done all that, if we came along and said "you can't rent over X number of canoes in a day" isnt the goverment taking part of their business the same as if the gov said "Hick BBQ, you cant serve food to over X number of people in a day" If we did limit the number of rental canoes/tubes/etc, would we also limit the number of individually owned canoes that can be put on a stretch of river ?

Early this year I saw, probably because of the floods, a lot of that tyvek-type stuff hanging in bushes and trees in certain streams and thought it looked really bad but the place I was when I really noticed it, I could have spent all day to pick up what was around in a couple hundred yards. So I decided "well, pick up SOMETHING" and did. I have always been pretty good about picking up what I brought and this year I have been making an effort to pick up something others left behind even if its just one soda or beer can. Its nice to see that others are doing that too.

If I look at the moment the shooter pulled the trigger, I can see the self-defense argument. What I don't know is what the law says if you withdraw from a situation, as he did at first, and then return as an aggressor or otherwise provoke things to a point where deadly force might otherwise be legal. I dont know but it could be an interesting trial.

There are no heros in this story, or, as SB said, this one is dumb and dumber. When the guy pisses in your woods, and bunch of beer-ed up friends of his grab rocks and walk toward you, its time to go. Go and call the law if you want, but go. Flip side is when a crazy looking dude comes out of the woods waving a gun around and telling you you better go, you better go. Darwin awards for both of em perhaps ?

Thank you Al !

I've got fairly large hands and using Al's measuring technique I get about 21" on the fish. If the guy who caught it has hands smaller than mine, which is pretty likely, downsize that 21 to something less. On 405's photoshop'd fish, I wouldn't have noticed anything suspicious about his second pic. In fact, knowing that its altered all I can see is that the first in pic # 2 looks somewhat blurry or less distinct than the rest of that same pic. It woulda fooled me.

Somebody mentioned governmental finances as a possible factor; along that line I saw a saltwater fishing magazine while waiting in a doctors office this week and it said that Florida has made all tarpon and bonefish mandatory release except for fish big enough to potentially be a world or state record ( I forget which Also one of the Carolinas, South I think, did something very similar about tarpon. Both states apparently were motivated by the economic/tourism value of the really big fish. Yes, I realize we have MDC to deal with, but maybe its a thought.

Your pictures are wonderful and your ability to spot things in the outdoors, like the owl in the tree, amazes me !!

Maybe little glowing turds left by that yellow striped crawdad I saw last spring ?

YESSS !!!

"What I really hate is the assumption that anybody on the other side is stupid or has a hidden, nefarious agenda. I've grown to thoroughly detest the phrase, "drinking the kool-aid". It implies that the person you're talking about believes something (bad) without thinking it through at all, only listening to some leader and following them right down the line. It also implies that you have all the answers. Nobody has all the answers. Nobody, and no political philosophy, is right all the time. But when you tell me that I'm not only wrong and you're right, but that I must be either really stupid or a really bad person for believing the way I do, you've already lost all chance of swaying me with your arguments, let alone having me see if we have some common ground to work together. You've made an enemy, plain and simple." And, at the point Al describes above, any "discussion/conversation" passes from "I really super-strongly disagree with you", to nothing but name calling.

Or, if there is a way to do it, could we get the Prosecutor to at least let this clown know that jail time is possible ? I agree it would not be imposed, but some folks with the idea of a week or a month in the Crawford Co Hilton might think about changing their ways. Scott, yeah, I am glad you are back, but if you leave again, put me down for any Curado 200 E's at the $ 60 and $ 650 plus your choice of any one Smithwick Suspending Rogue I still have, for either coosa

Hey Scott, if you quit fishing over this the jerk with the spear would figure he *won*.

I'll point out something obvious too. "This is how I get when I drink" is not an excuse for what we've seen. It might be a reason for you to take a look at your relationship with alcohol, but, its not an excuse.

Thanks everybody for their posts on this thread. Also, add me to the list of folks who would love a "canoes, yaks, mods etc" forum.

I like it ! I dont see a downside other than about 5 cents worth of paint per stormdrain.

Way to go Scott, and everybody else who helped !! I may have a longer range thought too, but I need to play with it in my head for a bit.

Way to go !!

Very jealous here. But I think I recognize one of those rocks in the picture that has the white tape measure !

Color me beyond jealous !

Many years ago one morning up the Tebo arm of Truman Lake two black helicopters appeared and a dozen or so guys in strange uniforms fast roped down onto one of the islands up there in the lake and were running around with spooky looking guns. I could not make this up. At the time I naively assuming it was something the US military was practicing because of the indescribable amount of nuclear weaponry at and around Whiteman AFB. Now I realize it must have been UN troops sent in as part of the plot to take over our rivers and lakes. If we just give them Carlyle Lake, perhaps they would call it even ?

I haven't fished it in a million years, but at Louisiana Mo, the Salt enters the Mississippi and there at least used to be a surprizing number of 2 - 4 lb bass, including decent percentages of SM, in that pool of Miss itself around there. That pool goes from Clarksville to Saverton.

This !

I just ordered it online. $ 8 plus s&h. MDCNatureShop.com Supposedly also available at Powder Valley.

I'll take em if nobody has beat me. Paying cash. Sent you a PM. Larry