Violations

[Bill Babler]

I know the dock folks at Lilleys' do an outstanding job on trying to educate people on rules, regulations, limits and the proper areas they are permitted to fish and how they are permitted to fish these areas, but it can for the most part be a complete overload for some of these people. However good intentions they may have, it is very difficuilt to understand what is exected.

We need signs on both sides of the Lake that are outlined in either hunter orange or flo-chartruse, to attract attention. Located at the mouth of Fall Creek.

It would also be fantastic to have another at the Island at Lookout.

As far as the wade fishing area, I really think it is very well marked but the violations seem to keep on keepin on, and I really don't understand it. Maybe we could construct an arch or a narrow chute that folks would have to walk thru with the regulations clearly marked with a Warning, Violators will be Cited.

We also need to make sure of the designation, of the area from {TROPHY} totally false to "Restricted Zone." By stating this being a Restricted Zone it more clearly implys that there are regulations that must be followed.

A new sign stating the following would probably attract much more attention.

RESTRICTED FISHING ZONE

RAINBOW TROUT MEASURING BETWEEN 12 AND 20 INCHES MUST BE IMMEDIATLY RETURNED TO THE WATER

BROWN TROUT MEASURING UNDER 20 INCHES MUST BE IMMEDIATLY RETURNED TO THE WATER

TROUT LIMITS

4 TROUT PER PERSON PER DAY WITH NO MORE THAN ONE BROWN TROUT BEING COUNTED IN THE LIMIT

PERMITTED FISHING METHODS

HARD BODIED LURES OR FEATHERED FLYS

WARNING

NATURAL OR LIVE BAITS, SOFT BODIED BAITS, SCENTED OR FLAVORED BAITS INCLUDING POWERBAIT IS STRICTLY FORBIDDEN

VIOLATORS WILL BE PROSECUTED TO THE FULLEST EXTENT OF THE LAW

Just a blue print, I'm sure someone could come up with something better, but it needs to really put the point across you will pay the price if you cheat, not knowing the law is no excuse.

I also whitnessed another little trick that was going on this last week. Fly fishermen throwing hatchery trout food into the top of the outlet chutes. The trout were litterly trying to climb the rocks to get at it. I guess chuming the chutes is legal, but for cripes sakes.

[Wayne SW/MO]

IMMEDIATLY RETURNED TO THE WATER

I would change this to MUST NOT BE REMOVED FROM THE WATER! I've seen some nice fished photographed to what appeared to be death

[Flysmallie]

You don't need more signs, you need more tickets.

Word will get out fast enough.

I was at Roaring River on Friday fishing up by the hatchery. There was a large rainbow, probably 9 or ten pounds, that kept cruising around. Everyone was casting at it. Just as I started to walk off and find a less populated area a guy walks up and his buddy who had been standing close to me points it out to him. I walked on. Before I could get to the other side of the pool this guy has the fished hooked and is fighting him. I thought that it was odd but just went on my way. Later at lunch one of the guys told me that the guy that landed the fish dropped a jar of Salmon eggs when trying to get a picture with the big fish.

Point is most of these people don't care about the rules. They only care if they get caught. So lets spend less time "educating" and more time funding our schools.

[bigdub]

Man Bill, I've never seen the hatchery food trick, seeming how the trout are already stacked in there that seems kind of pathetic to me, but to each his own I guess. Before this most recent flood I snagged a guys line from another boat with my jig on accident and it had powerbait on it. I told them that this was a restricted area and that was not allowed, but my words fellon deaf ears. Guess I should have just hooked it onto my boat carpet and fired up the engine and took off LOL! I don't know what its going to take to stop this blatant disreguard for the law, but it will probably have to be drastic at this point. The violations are getting way too common, I am all for more signage, that would be great, but I also think the majority of tourists think that they are only there for a short time and are going to do as they please while they are on vacation, so I don't know how to stop that at this point. I wil lbe taking photos from now on and sending the to either Quentin or the MDC, I think that might be a good starting point for everyone. Have a good day all and good luck out there!!!

[Brian Sloss]

I am all for more signs on the waterways that you can see from a boat or while wading. I think that it would help on my home water, the Eleven Point. We have people that float from above Greer (beginning of trophy water) at Cane Bluff and by the time they get 7.5 miles down to the trophy area, it can slip their mind whether the regs start at the spring, the bridge or the boat ramp. We go over the regs thoroughly with clients, but a lot of people take their own boats and don't necessarily know the regs. Though I feel that they should and don't have much sympathy for them when they get caught, I feel a sign would be the best answer to make it as clear as possible. Also, then there would be less of an excuse to use to try and get out of a fine. The signs on the White are a perfect example because it is painfully obvious when you are entering a restricted area. Therefore, no excuses when you get busted. There are always those who will break the game laws no matter what, but education does make a difference with the majority of anglers in my experience.

[Bill Babler]

Please remember this. This is not a catch and release zone. that will never, and I mean never fly. There has to be some latitude. To accuratly measure a fish to the 1/4 inch or less, it is almost impossible to do so with the fish in the water. These fish are not so fragile that they cannot be handled somewhat. Larger fish of course should be supported and kept over the water incase they slip from your hands, but what we are trying to spot here is illegal fishing methods and taking fish that are illegal. Let's not get distracted here or nothing will ever get done.

We are very lucky to have the restricted zone, and we sure don't want to loose it. We start trying to push this to far and you will get a completely different lobby against any regulations on the upper lake.

I really am going to take a bit of a different stand on the enforcement issue. Don't think it matters. Wow you say! You go before a judge that is a non-fisherperson and tell him you got arrested for having a trout that is 12 and 1/32 inches long and he is going to boot that so far out of court it would hit the moon. You go into court and tell him you got arrested for using power bait in a no bait live bait area and he is going to say, I didn't know powerbait was not artificial bait.

What I'm trying to say is that these violations, and they are that, but they are so close to not being it is very hard to distinguish. It's like getting a ticket for driving 57mph in a 55 zone. I guess we all should antie up on that one.

95% of the folks I advise on the regulations, have never fished taney before and usually will not be back. No, I don't think folks are saying, "Lets take a chance and cheat." I don't believe that.

I'll go back to my State Patrol days, where they taught us that 90 percent of the laws are broken unintentionally. Main cause is people do not know, or they do not understand. However ignorance of the law is not an excuse. I believe it is still pretty close to that.

There are some very different theroies in Law enforcement. State HWY and WHP officers want to write minimal numbers of high quality summons, and their conviction rates are well above 90 percent. MDC wants huge ammounts of paper work generated and the courts to sort it out marginal or otherwise.

I remember in the early 80's when I was working lake O. MSWP, we for a span of time in Miller, Morgan, Benton and Camden Counties were 100 percent on convictions. You got a ticket you got fined. During the same period MDC was running about 30 percent on convictions. Not good police work, but lots of paper. Also just laws that are impossible for people to follow and extremely hard to enforce.

How would you like to be Quntin and measure a trout that an elderly person caught and is very proud of it. The trout measures 12 and a 1/4. Do you write the ticket? Yes you probably do, as your sworn oath and your business policy says you do, but if that person goes to court rather than mailing in the fine, you are going to get you case thrown out, probably 90 percent of the time.

Game laws are harder to enforce because of the judicial system and the marginal way not only the laws are written, but also enforced.

Sorry to take up so much time but I am inside and am trying not to help Becky make beds.

Very interesting topic, if we can keep it going in this very civil manner. Thanks to everyone for their participation.

[catfishRob]

I am new the forums and new to the Ozarks area, went to Taneycomo the other day and was completely confused by some of the signs.I had to ask other people i saw fishing what could be used where we were and what couldn't be used...I got several of different answers all for the same place..I went to a few different places and eventually found a bait shop the helped me out...but i have to admit its very confusing to know what you can use where...After i got home and did even more homework on what i can fish with and cant I found this site and found a very nice map that helped so after this storm passes and i can get back out there and catch some.

[bigredbirdfan]

Boots in boats is the only way to stop this IMO.

[troutfiend1985]

What about a test before you get your trout stamp? You need to have a trout stamp to fish in the restricted zone, but to have a quick test that makes a person aware of the regulations that are necessary in order to keep trout might help. It would at least end the bs of someone saying that they didn't know of the regulations. I know that it seems like a hassel but it might be a way to curb the stupidity. Just a thought.

[Phil Lilley]

I am new the forums and new to the Ozarks area, went to Taneycomo the other day and was completely confused by some of the signs.I had to ask other people i saw fishing what could be used where we were and what couldn't be used...I got several of different answers all for the same place..I went to a few different places and eventually found a bait shop the helped me out...but i have to admit its very confusing to know what you can use where...After i got home and did even more homework on what i can fish with and cant I found this site and found a very nice map that helped so after this storm passes and i can get back out there and catch some.

This post sums it up.

The regs are confusing. MDC did the best they could in the wording without using brand names, which they cannot use, but without a good map and details, it's hard for a newbee to understand, even if he's trying to.

A bright, well worded sign at the mouth of Fall Creek and a new sign on the point of the island on the left just above the line would work. The sign at the point COULD use the words PowerBait and Gulp since it's on private ground.