Should Money Be Spent On A Put-and-take Trout Lake?

[Phil Lilley]

I believe (actually I know) that Taneycomo gets more attention because of all the resorts, fishing guide services, etc that operate on it.

Please expound on this concept. You say you know... how? What proof do you have? Truly and honestly, I'm interested. Not being mean-spirited in my asking.

Thanks

[fiveweight]

I read somewhere that 15 percent of missouri's total fishing program, is funded by trout fishing. Those native fishes are on welfare.

Thanks for posting that. It may even be low. The only objective way to quantify that figure is to compare the revenue of trout stamps sold to the total revenue of all licenses. But since a standard fishing license is a prerequisite for a trout stamp, it would be low because it doesn't count revenue from standard licenses sold to people who only fish for trout.

[creek wader]

I'm just asking...

What good are they anyhow?

I'm not sure whether I should get into this discussion or not. A lot of strong minded opinions going on here. But, what the heck. I just want to attempt to answer the original question. The one asked before the debate got a little off base.

"What good are they anyhow?" What kind of question is that, anyway? By asking that question. I can tell that Lilly is dead set against the Urban trout program. Or he would of never asked a thing like that.

I didn't care for the tone of the question. Also, you wouldn't have asked such a thing if you didn't want to ruffle some feathers.

Evidently, you must of never been to one. Not everyone has a "world class" tout fishery in their backyard. We aren't as lucky as you.

Not everyone has one of the four trout parks, or a trout stream stocked by the MDC within driving distance (a few hours) of their home.

Opening day of urban trout fishing, the banks of several urban lakes, that I've been to, are lined with people. Such as retired people, families, guys like myself and others. Many people fishing with fly rods.

Now that the weather has gotten colder and the fish have gotten wiser or sore lipped. They are very wily and hard to catch, creating a challenge. Most of the people still fishing for them are people fly fishing, like myself. There are some very serious fisherman there. I'm very impressed watching them. Most tie their own flies, like myself. Who get great satisfaction out of catching a trout on something we made ourselves.

A few years ago, I would of never used my fly rod at a trout park in front of the experienced fly fisherman. Because I was so embarrassed with my casting ability. However, experienced fly fisherman at these urban lakes have helped me immensely. Now I have some confidence in my ability to cast a fly.

Also, I encountered an 8 yr. old boy one day fishing with night crawlers, during the C&R season. He was using a very wore out, poor casting Zebco. I politely talked to the boy and worked on his reel. I pointed out the rules and regs. and why they were installed. I found a Rapala floating minnow in his box. By the time his non fishing wise father showed up. The boy had caught several trout and was very hooked on fishing. If you could of seen his face. You would know why this program is worth it. I had an older, distinguished, experienced fisherman come over and compliment me, on working with the boy. I saw a little of myself in the boy. It felt good to help him out.

I think this is an excellent program. As far as money spent on it. It can't be that much. Not in the grand scheme of things.

Some government programs that are good for the public don't always have to generate a big profit. Sometimes, they are just good to have.

I think that question that you asked was a very pompous question and I'm surprised that you of all people would ask such a thing. It sounded to me that only Taneycomo, and people that fish it, are the only serious trout fishermen. And the rest of us aren't good enough to have the opportunity to fish for trout. What's the difference between the MDC putting trout in some of the streams. They are all hatchery raised trout. After all this is Missouri, not some Montana trout stream. Trout are not native here. They had to be stocked here to begin with.

I personally am not a big fan of trout fishing. But a fan of all fishing, I prefer "wild" smallie fishing. But, I am having fun at the urban trout lakes.

[Larry Richards]

Great read guys.When I lived in the White Mountains of Arizona there was a program on TV about the Tonto Cr.Trout Hatchery in Arizona and there trout program.The Manager of the hatchery stated that from the time they take the eggs to the time they plant the trout in the Urban lakes the cost(employee wages,meds,feed,lab work,cost to run the hatchery,ect.)was close to $10 per fish.This started a huge debate much like the discussion here.

[ness]

Alright, let's go with the $10 per fish number, 'cause that's all we got. And didn't somebody say there were 30,000 fish allocated to the program? That's $300,000 -- and that's peanuts. Their budget is something like $140 million, so that's 0.2%

I did find MDC budget info here. Somebody with more time than me might be able to glean some real facts from this.

[creek wader]

Alright, let's go with the $10 per fish number, 'cause that's all we got. And didn't somebody say there were 30,000 fish allocated to the program? That's $300,000 -- and that's peanuts. Their budget is something like $140 million, so that's 0.2%

I did find MDC budget info here. Somebody with more time than me might be able to glean some real facts from this.

My point exactly. It doesn't generate millions of dollars, but, the program doesn't cost much, and provides outdoor entertainment and enjoyment for many people. That's what it is good for.

[Wayne SW/MO]

I don't want to get too far beyond my knowledge, but I would bett that the MDC makes good money off of Taney. The bulk of the money put in is from the Corps, but the tag money goes to MDC. Don't forget there is no daily tag on Taney, so visitors have to buy some kind of license and a trout tag.

What do you think Phil, about the profit/loss for the MDC? You see a lot of license sales I'm sure.

[laker67]

I don't want to get too far beyond my knowledge, but I would bett that the MDC makes good money off of Taney. The bulk of the money put in is from the Corps, but the tag money goes to MDC. Don't forget there is no daily tag on Taney, so visitors have to buy some kind of license and a trout tag.

What do you think Phil, about the profit/loss for the MDC? You see a lot of license sales I'm sure.

It's the same with the trout parks, you still are required to have a fishing license to purchase a daily tag.

[Phil Lilley]

I'm not sure whether I should get into this discussion or not. A lot of strong minded opinions going on here. But, what the heck. I just want to attempt to answer the original question. The one asked before the debate got a little off base.

"What good are they anyhow?" What kind of question is that, anyway? By asking that question. I can tell that Lilly is dead set against the Urban trout program. Or he would of never asked a thing like that.

I didn't care for the tone of the question. Also, you wouldn't have asked such a thing if you didn't want to ruffle some feathers.

Evidently, you must of never been to one. Not everyone has a "world class" tout fishery in their backyard. We aren't as lucky as you.

Not everyone has one of the four trout parks, or a trout stream stocked by the MDC within driving distance (a few hours) of their home.

Opening day of urban trout fishing, the banks of several urban lakes, that I've been to, are lined with people. Such as retired people, families, guys like myself and others. Many people fishing with fly rods.

Now that the weather has gotten colder and the fish have gotten wiser or sore lipped. They are very wily and hard to catch, creating a challenge. Most of the people still fishing for them are people fly fishing, like myself. There are some very serious fisherman there. I'm very impressed watching them. Most tie their own flies, like myself. Who get great satisfaction out of catching a trout on something we made ourselves.

A few years ago, I would of never used my fly rod at a trout park in front of the experienced fly fisherman. Because I was so embarrassed with my casting ability. However, experienced fly fisherman at these urban lakes have helped me immensely. Now I have some confidence in my ability to cast a fly.

Also, I encountered an 8 yr. old boy one day fishing with night crawlers, during the C&R season. He was using a very wore out, poor casting Zebco. I politely talked to the boy and worked on his reel. I pointed out the rules and regs. and why they were installed. I found a Rapala floating minnow in his box. By the time his non fishing wise father showed up. The boy had caught several trout and was very hooked on fishing. If you could of seen his face. You would know why this program is worth it. I had an older, distinguished, experienced fisherman come over and compliment me, on working with the boy. I saw a little of myself in the boy. It felt good to help him out.

I think this is an excellent program. As far as money spent on it. It can't be that much. Not in the grand scheme of things.

Some government programs that are good for the public don't always have to generate a big profit. Sometimes, they are just good to have.

I think that question that you asked was a very pompous question and I'm surprised that you of all people would ask such a thing. It sounded to me that only Taneycomo, and people that fish it, are the only serious trout fishermen. And the rest of us aren't good enough to have the opportunity to fish for trout. What's the difference between the MDC putting trout in some of the streams. They are all hatchery raised trout. After all this is Missouri, not some Montana trout stream. Trout are not native here. They had to be stocked here to begin with.

I personally am not a big fan of trout fishing. But a fan of all fishing, I prefer "wild" smallie fishing. But, I am having fun at the urban trout lakes.

I apologize for making is sound like I was against urban trout fishing... actually in my short-sightedness, I didn't think about urban trout fishing when I started this thread, I was thinking about Taneycomo only.

I simply was trying to divert this issue from another topic, Habitat Improvement on Taney. I wanted to discuss ideas others have on adding habitat below Table Rock Dam and others kept bringing up the question whether money should be spent on "non-native" fisheries at all.

So, I started this topic.

I believe urban trout fishing is a great thing! It gets people out to fish more often in the winter and it's great for kids. I've always thought trout fishing is perfect for kids cause they are so easy to catch most of the time.

Again, sorry for the opening statement.

[creek wader]

I apologize for making is sound like I was against urban trout fishing... actually in my short-sightedness, I didn't think about urban trout fishing when I started this thread, I was thinking about Taneycomo only.

I simply was trying to divert this issue from another topic, Habitat Improvement on Taney. I wanted to discuss ideas others have on adding habitat below Table Rock Dam and others kept bringing up the question whether money should be spent on "non-native" fisheries at all.

So, I started this topic.

I believe urban trout fishing is a great thing! It gets people out to fish more often in the winter and it's great for kids. I've always thought trout fishing is perfect for kids cause they are so easy to catch most of the time.

Again, sorry for the opening statement.

Lilly, Please accept my apology for lashing out at you like that. I was in awe that you'd be against the Urban program. I misunderstood. .... wader