I'm Really, Really Sick Of This...

[fishgypsy]

I wonder if MDC has any data on how many people are out there gigging. Every time I renew my fishing license I'm asked if I've fished for smallmouth, every time I renew my hunting license I'm asked if I shot waterfowl or doves, I wonder if it'd be difficult to put a question on the license reader "did you gig for suckers in the past year?" just to get a decent estimate.

I guess the thing which just seems "off" to me is that MDC manages suckers as a non-game species, I'm not sure how much data they collect on population trends or sizes, like they do with smallmouth or walleye or other sportfish. But suckers are pursued and are taken into possession- there's a fishery there that doesn't seem to really be regulated. That makes me nervous. And what floors me whenever I talk to the old-time giggers is the recurring theme of "Things were better thirty years ago. Lots more suckers, and big ones, too." It's discussed with this sort of wistful stoicism that makes me wonder why they're not pushing MDC to figure out what's wrong.

I have no problem with the giggers out there who obey game laws. And proportionally, there's probably just as many pole-and-line violators out there as giggers. In any instance, I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bath water. My point is that, in the case of giggers who violate, the cards are stacked against the agent from the get-go, unlike pole and line anglers. To me that's the biggest challenge- simply being able to regulate gigging in a meaningful way.

The knee-jerk reaction is to ban gigging altogether, and aside from that not being feasible, I don't think it's fair to lump every gigger out there in with the violators. Honestly, the best thing I see would be if the gigging community became more self-policing, though I'm not sure how you'd go about encouraging it.

Has anyone ever thought of working with the stream teams to do some sort of dead fish census? Instead of plastic bags and tires you survey fish carcasses a couple times during the gigging season? It'd probably fly like a lead balloon- cold weather and dead stinky fish, but hey, it's an idea.

[Guest]

deleted

 

[creek wader]

First, let me say that I have nothing against legal gigging, myself. We used to gig rough fish when I was in high school. It was fun. But, we waded the small rivers in Nebr. We didn't use a jet boat. I think that gives a gigger or a fisherman a little unfair advantage. but that argument is for a different day.

Anyway, on the Ozark streams that I fish, it would be hard to get a jet boat upstream very far. So, the gigging problem is lessened. Although, gigging does take place on these streams.

Something that Al mentions several times, is jet boats.

I know it'll never happen. But, probably, the best way to lessen the "bad" effects of gigging. Would be to ban jet boats on certain rivers. I know, it would be impossible to enforce and it wouldn't totally stop illegal gigging of game fish. But, it would minimized some of the pressure on the winterizing game fish. At the least, it would make a gigger work a little harder to get to those spots. It might be a slight deterrent.

The only way that this would work very well, would be to ban jet boats year around. Of course, I don't have a jet boat so, I'd be for this. They could try to ban jet boats on certain rivers during the winter months. I know they would still be used but, probably not as rampant.

My personal opinion is, if your going to use an ancient and effective "art" or "means". to take game. Then it should be a 100% ancient process. Just like my opinion on muzzle loading. But, that is for another thread and another day.

I know banning jet boats will never happen.

... just a thought. ....wader

[fishinwrench]

The actual "tradition" part of it is the wee-hour gravel bar party and fish fry.... And here's the scenario:

A group loads up the boat(s) with a chainsaw, cooler, grease, fire starter, and stuff to prepare and cook with. It's getting late, everyone is hungry and pretty buzzed, but they've only seen a few decent sized Suckers. Are they going to just forgo the gravel bar (or island) fish fry and go home hungry at 4am...or are they going to stick whatever they can and complete what they set out to do ?

I know they "prefer" scoring some Suckers, and probably wouldn't choose to stick bass or trout....but on a slow nite with few or only smallish Suckers to be found they aren't going to pass on the island party and a meal of Bass or Trout, and just call it a night. They brought along all the stuff for a big gravel bar fish-fry...and byGod they are gonna have one.

At least that is the way it plays out on the Niangua.

[Flysmallie]

First, let me say that I have nothing against legal gigging, myself. We used to gig rough fish when I was in high school. It was fun. But, we waded the small rivers in Nebr. We didn't use a jet boat. I think that gives a gigger or a fisherman a little unfair advantage. but that argument is for a different day.

Anyway, on the Ozark streams that I fish, it would be hard to get a jet boat upstream very far. So, the gigging problem is lessened. Although, gigging does take place on these streams.

Something that Al mentions several times, is jet boats.

I know it'll never happen. But, probably, the best way to lessen the "bad" effects of gigging. Would be to ban jet boats on certain rivers. I know, it would be impossible to enforce and it wouldn't totally stop illegal gigging of game fish. But, it would minimized some of the pressure on the winterizing game fish. At the least, it would make a gigger work a little harder to get to those spots. It might be a slight deterrent.

The only way that this would work very well, would be to ban jet boats year around. Of course, I don't have a jet boat so, I'd be for this. They could try to ban jet boats on certain rivers during the winter months. I know they would still be used but, probably not as rampant.

My personal opinion is, if your going to use an ancient and effective "art" or "means". to take game. Then it should be a 100% ancient process. Just like my opinion on muzzle loading. But, that is for another thread and another day.

I know banning jet boats will never happen.

... just a thought. ....wader

You could ban jet boats after dark.

[Forsythian]

I thought maybe we were getting somewhere until that little gem from Fishinwrench... we've gone from anecdotes to fictional scenarios. We've hit bottom, and we've started digging.

Anywho, there's some cool fishing vests for sale in the buy/sell/trade forum. Also shopping for a small chest or shoulder pack to use on short wet-wading trips this coming summer. (Come to think of it, I'm gonna need some new wading shoes as well). I'm just gonna mosey on outa here and leave you all to your tales of woe. I sure hope the planet survives the death and destruction that these last 4 weeks of gigging season will bring!

peace

[Wayne SW/MO]

At least that is the way it plays out on the Niangua.

It sure does! They ran a sting on the Niangua several years ago and cleaned up on boats and fines. I've never caught big smallies in the Prosperine area, but there is always a good population, at least until the gigging season opens and I know that's not a coincidence. It happened every fall without fail.

It has nothing to do with jet boats, they're just one type of boat. Any boat you can hang stadium lights on and put a 5000watt generator in will work.

[fishinwrench]

I thought maybe we were getting somewhere until that little gem from Fishinwrench... we've gone from anecdotes to fictional scenarios.

We were "getting somewhere" ?

[Gavin]

I'm not sure....I know that there are some folks who gig gamefish intentionally...They are poachers plain and simple...Giggin certainly seems to be more accessable these days....but there isnt much you can do without hard data...I think that it would be interesting to see a survey about gigging participation, and its effect on rough & gamefish population & size structures. It will probably take 10 years...but I think its worth doing.

[fishinwrench]

Routinely seeing fish with gig scars, dead floaters with holes in them, and decreasing numbers of sizable smallmouth and browns on the lower Niangua are hard enough data for me. And 10 years worth of noticing it is coming up pretty fast.