I'm Really, Really Sick Of This...

[jdmidwest]

Smaller streams were never safe, they just use jon boats and wade thru the holes. Carbide lights and fires in the boats.

I have watched them chase suckers with a snagging rig on the current river below the turd ponds outside of Montauk Park. I am sure a trout or two gets snagged also. They chase the suckers around by tossing rocks in the stream. When I reported the activity, I was told it was legal and very common.

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[Ham]

One person out of a group that had two boats said they gigged 300 fish in an hour and a half. Yea its probably true and I didn't ask any questions.

Seems like a nice group of resonable and responsible sportsmen being good stewards of a resource so that they and others could enjoy their "sport" for years to come.

[cwc87]

Seems like a nice group of resonable and responsible sportsmen being good stewards of a resource so that they and others could enjoy their "sport" for years to come.

Not trying to stir it up or keep this thread going but just putting info out there. Now, lets get that name this stream, or section og river or hole it's would help with cabin fever. Not intended to hijack this thread. cheers!

[oneshot]

Don't know what to say.I enjoy any way of getting Rough Fish wheather it be Gigging,Bow fishing,Snagging,Jugging or set Lines.

Yes Nontarget Fish are caught but for the most part they are not.But I do catch couple of fish a year that are still alive with Gig Marks,caught one yesterday.Question what are you willing to do as far as controlling the population of Rough Fish? Me I do enjoy catching them with Rod and Reel but I'm not like many throwing them up on the bank to rot.

oneshot

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[troutfiend1985]

Matt is starting the correct thinking. Education. Take a chapter out of the M.A.D.D. playbook. Join with the enforcment agency and contribute not only in the education part but in the field. Stop pointing your fingers and take action. Why don't 4 or 5 of you get together and spend the weekend hitting the hot spot access' and make contact with all those fishing and let them know that you as a group are keeping an eye on this area and will report all violations to the MDC and show them your cell phone. We all have seen in the news about citizen's taking back their neighborhoods from the drugies, surley you can take back your streams. Or you can just open another bag of Cheeto's and continue yellowing your keyboard.

Chief, let me turn the tables a bit, what is your suggestion in regards to education? What more can MDC, or a conservation group do in order to reduce this problem? It seems to me that a previous post states that there are signs aimed at poachers, if these aren't effective then why? It seems that there is a group here that is very adamant about not having more enforcement, but there are others that also say more laws are useless because we can't enforce them. Bottom line question is, if an education route is chosen then what does it need to look like?

Taking a playbook out of MADD. I agree that education is valuable, but to me a person can be educated on this issue by looking at mdc.mo.gov or contacting a local agent or reading the regulations, all of which are free and highly accessible. It is a person’s duty to know the law, as the old saying goes 'ignorance is no excuse.' Are these people truly ignorant of the laws, or do they turn their head away from it? Chief I know that you have to be a conservationist as I have read your posts, but how can we reach the poachers? I am all for education over enforcement, but how can we make education work? It is easy to say that we need to talk to the drunk drivers or poachers, but when the drunk drivers and poachers don't freely come to the meeting then how can we reach them?

I have a hard time believing that a person thinks he can go onto public land and do whatever he wants however he wants, but I could be wrong and it wouldn't be the first time.

[Gary Lange]

The Education part I believe should come out of there pockets. The only way the individuals that are taking Smallmouths could care less about reading the regulations and wouldn't follow them anyway. The one thing that will get there attention is taking money out of there pocket book in the form of fines. This goes one after dark and with boats it would be hard to monitor if not impossible. They know this and use it to there advantage and most set up on a bank and drink beer and fry fish with nothing coming back to the ramps. Perhaps the MDC needs to be educated on the fact that Smallmouths and other game fish are being taken and that Smallmouth anglers as a group don't like this and want something done about it. Whether that is more enforcement, shorter seasons or simply stopping it in SMA's all together.

[Al Agnew]

Yep, "education" is one of those throw-away terms that sounds good in theory, but I don't see it solving this problem. The people who are doing it deliberately KNOW it's against the law...they don't need educating on that fact. They also think that they have the right to do whatever they please once they are out of sight of law enforcement, and the only education that will fix that is as Gary said.

When you stop and think about it, this is about as sticky a problem as you can get in managing bass populations on streams.

1. It's a traditional sport with lots of local adherents. The difference between Missouri and most other states is that most other states don't allow taking fish this way, and never have.

2. It has become a lot more efficient than it used to be, and probably with more people doing it regularly.

3. It is done at times and in places where law enforcement is about as difficult as it could be.

4. The number of people doing it ILLEGALLY is probably quite small, and those people are hard to reach.

5. But those few people have a major impact specifically on the numbers of the biggest game fish in the areas where they do it.

It's obvious from just reading everybody's thoughts here that there is no good way of fixing the situation.

I think our only hope is a combination of MDC action in stronger enforcement attempts and experimental closing of certain stream sections to all gigging, and time for the few people who do it to either see the light or die off. I don't say that entirely as a joke. In my lifetime I've seen a lot of changes in attitude among Ozarkers toward illegal exploitation of wildlife. The percentage of law-breakers has dropped a lot. The only problem is that although fewer people break the game laws, some of those who do are better at it and better equipped than they ever were before. Gigging game fish is no exception.

[cwc87]

Just thinking out loud again. "Man the population of catfish and o yes the hellbender going into extinction could be that giggers play a role" I agree with Al and most others on this forum and I know that this is being read by conservation agents and some of the fisheries personnel and even some water patrolman too. But, here we are come on rain and muddy the rivers and streams up till the end of gigging season. Have a great week everyone.