I'm Really, Really Sick Of This...

[Wayne SW/MO]

I have brought up the idea of a roving group of agents before, and I think eliminating those giggers that don't really care about the sport, but the chance to easily kill some fish. This would help not only all fishermen the traditional giggers also.

I think a force of agents numbering 4-6 that could be called in to any area by the resident agent would put the fear into many violators of any regulations. The fear factor would fit in with the commissions desire to avoid ticketing violators and maybe allow them to add some regulations. These could be new, young agents available to fill retirements or leaves who would gain valuable experience. Some could be Highway patrol candidates.

Forsythian I know you feel some of this is overkill, but I've known giggers for a long, long time and the new developments have brought in a lot of people who see it as an easy way to kill fish, not as a sport. I think if they simply limited lumens it would help a lot, even if the amount allowed was superior to gas lanterns or Pine bolls. I know the thought is that brighter lights allow better identification, but it also increases the depth and brings more fish under the gig.

[Paola Cat]

My observations are very similar to those of some of the other guys. Specifically regarding the Niangua: 1. the sucker population is way down (I see only an infrequent red horse and only a few hog suckers) 2. 12"+ SMB numbers are down 3. sizable brown trout are non-existent 4. I catch and see more damaged game-fish than I ever have in the last 30 years 5. I see more "floaters" and carcasses in the holes than I ever have. 6. I float through and wade through long stretches of water devoid of any fish. In the past, these stretches held sizable populations of suckers. Something has changed on this river. Draw your own conclusion. I've drawn mine. PC

[Guest]

deleted

[KCRIVERRAT]

Yes KC, moonlighting deer is illegal, and it still takes place. If you outlaw deer hunting altogether, then you don't have to worry about it.

You can't swing a dead cat in the Upper Taneycomo forum without hitting a topic of people using power bait in the restricted zone, or keeping fish in the slot. Take the fishermen off that stretch of river, and you don't have to patrol it either.

I've gigged out of Hootentown for 10 years now, and not once have I seen a game warden. You get wardens out at the major launches for a year or two, and they say more regulation is needed, then you'll turn some ears. You do some legitamite management studies, then you'll turn some ears. Better for me that you all sit here in your echo chamber and trade horror stories about "THEM".

Oh, and keep an eye to your left, because there's plenty of busy bodies who don't care much for your "sport" either.

Forsythian, if that big ol' boy in your avatar looks left, he's definitely in the drink cause he'll be leaning right. Now... if he tries to look "BACKWARDS", an aquatic back flip is certainly in order! Peace to you too bud...

[fishinwrench]

I have brought up the idea of a roving group of agents before, and I think eliminating those giggers that don't really care about the sport, but the chance to easily kill some fish. This would help not only all fishermen the traditional giggers also.

I think a force of agents numbering 4-6 that could be called in to any area by the resident agent would put the fear into many violators of any regulations. The fear factor would fit in with the commissions desire to avoid ticketing violators and maybe allow them to add some regulations. These could be new, young agents available to fill retirements or leaves who would gain valuable experience. Some could be Highway patrol candidates.

That would certainly help. I know it only took one guy to get busted shooting the fake deer to put a sudden and abrupt halt to the road hunting in my county. The word gets out fast.

Hell, even if you could get the newspapers to print a faux report..... "Joe shmoe looses boat, truck, loss of fishing/hunting priveledges, and fined 5000.00 for gigging gamefish".... at least they'd be looking over their shoulders, and wondering. As it is now NOBODY is on record for a violation of that type, ever, that I know of anyway.

[Al Agnew]

Don't know whether Forsythian is still reading, but with his comment about anglers using Powerbait in the no-bait part of Taneycomo, again he's comparing apples to oranges. It would be easy to police that, since it's one finite area that's easily accessible at all times. All it would take to police it would be will to do so. And of course, the Powerbaiters can't catch all or even most of the big trout in the area. I can't stress enough that gigging has the potential to remove the vast majority of big smallmouth, and it's being done in areas that simply cannot be policed.

I too am disappointed, in that it seems that MDC, like most if not all state agencies, cannot seem to do anything proactively. They should have seen early on that the tremendous improvement in gigging technology with jetboats and huge banks of lights would make it a lot easier, and that jetboats and giggers were growing in numbers. While a jetboat isn't necessary to gig, it certainly makes it easier to move up and down the river, and the growing popularity of jetboats meant that the numbers of giggers were going to increase, and that stretches of streams farther from the accesses were going to be gigged more.

Another thing that has happened is that a lot more people, myself included, are fishing in late fall and winter, spending more time on the rivers. Fact is, a lot of anglers who fished only during the spring and summer never knew that a lot of fish were being killed in the winter. They just accepted the smallie population as it was when they fished it. But those of us who now frequent the streams in the winter have all seen the dead fish and smallies with gig holes in them. I think that the problem may have been as bad or worse 20 years ago, but now it's a lot more visible.

[eric1978]

That would certainly help. I know it only took one guy to get busted shooting the fake deer to put a sudden and abrupt halt to the road hunting in my county. The word gets out fast.

Hell, even if you could get the newspapers to print a faux report..... "Joe shmoe looses boat, truck, loss of fishing/hunting priveledges, and fined 5000.00 for gigging gamefish".... at least they'd be looking over their shoulders, and wondering. As it is now NOBODY is on record for a violation of that type, ever, that I know of anyway.

I think that may be the best and perhaps only way to curb gigging of gamefish. Spike the penalty to something ridiculous like a thousand dollar fine, or even better, lose your boat and equipment. Then MDC can auction it off and the proceeds can go to more enforcement. Since giggers know that their chances of being caught are just about nil, the only thing that might slow them down is drastic consequences. You should also have to take a species identification test in order to get a gigging license, so no one could use that "I couldn't tell the difference" BS if they were caught.

[Wayne SW/MO]

And nobody has responded to my post on how red horse or hog nose (or even creek chubs) effect or help our streams

How do smallmouth? The sucker family is native to Missouri streams and that in it self should be reason enough. Virtually any fish that isn't a predator helps provide a balance for the predatory fish, especially in the winter and early spring.

[KCRIVERRAT]

How do smallmouth? The sucker family is native to Missouri streams and that in it self should be reason enough. Virtually any fish that isn't a predator helps provide a balance for the predatory fish, especially in the winter and early spring.

Wayne, you misread me... I think suckers are vital to stream health.

[Kicknbass]

Let’s see if I got this straight. Below is a list of laws or changes that have been mentioned in this thread.

Outlaw Noodling

Outlaw Spot lighting

Outlaw running deer w/ dogs

Outlaw Deer hunting

Outlaw Gigging in the SMA

Outlaw Gigging

Outlaw motorized watercraft

Ban Jet boats

Ban jet boats after dark

ban jet boats on certain rivers during the winter months

Limit the lighting Lumens

Catch and release only

Bait restrictions

I have a few others to add

Catch and release only

Single hook only

Barbless hooks

Ban fires

Ban wood cutting

Ban ATV use

Ban Canoes on the rivers

Ban the use of the resources

No Hunting

No fishing

No gun ownership

No eating meat

No getting fat (that guy in the boat is in trouble)

No smoking

No drinking (by making all the other rules this one is going to hurt the most what else will we have)

No having fun

No having money

No freedom.

No freedom.

No freedom.

Don’t you love incrementalizm. This is how it happens, one rule at a time. Divide and conquer, get the Indians fighting among themselves, and the anti’s will take over. Guys, we are all sportsmen. Some groups annoy the others. But, we have had enough erosion of our freedoms already. Let’s not keep losing our freedoms one issue at a time. The law breakers don’t care. The laws aren’t enforced anyway.

Law enforcement would have a chance if it was funded, but the lawmakers choose not to enforce the laws in place, just make new ones that the law abiding will follow (easier and cheaper). They don’t have the courage to enforce the laws, and wonder way the laws don’t work. Then what? Make more restrictive laws because the first laws weren’t restrictive enough, therefore, didn’t work. It’s a cycle the keeps the lawyers wealthy.

Quotes from Forsythian:

”Al, you and I have tangled on this topic before. Come talk to me when you get the goofy 5-smallmouth daily limit changed. Until then, you're going to have a hard time convincing people it's a true management issue rather than an anectodal "my sport is better than yours" issue.”

“I don't doubt for a minute that it happens... no more than I doubt other kinds of poaching takes place. But, if you're gonna ban a sport because of the poaching element, we all might as well take up knitting.”

“I suppose you're right. Nowadays, it's backwards to favor personal responsibility and enforcement of existing laws. It's somehow more "progressive" to pass more and more laws. Punish the class instead of the student. “

“I'll take backwards any day.”

“Oh, and keep an eye to your left, because there's plenty of busy bodies who don't care much for your "sport" either.”

I agree with you 100% Forsythian. I hope it never happens, but if the fly flingers don’t wake up, they may someday wake up and wonder why they can’t go out and rip hooks through the lips of those poor fish. The fish are living creatures that have feelings too you know. You evil fisherman.

Let’s stick together as sportsman instead and stop bashing the “legal” use of the resources.