2009 Missouri Trout Odyssey--Day 3

[fishgypsy]

You have attacked Chief on at least one occasion, so I don't see how you have a leg to stand on in this dispute, but that is neither here nor there. I know Chief personally and he is one of the most conservation minded individuals I have ever met, and while brash at times, one of the most genuine good guys I know.

I feel that calling a stream what it has been called is nothing short of calling those that spend their time doing conservation work to improve the stream in all aspects the same names. These guys spend their free time, time that could be spent fishing, cleaning up Hickory Creek and to hear from someone from St. Louis that the creek is a ____hole, is a slap in the face. I wouldn't expect them to be happy about it, but rather to be a little p'd off by it.

Whether Chief is one of the most conservation-minded guys you've met has no bearing on whether or not what he said was inappropriate.

Ollie, I commend you for your efforts on Hickory Creek. I know how difficult it can be to maintain streams in urban areas, it's an uphill battle to be sure. That you sacrifice your free time to do it is laudable, and I sincerely thank you. I'm not trying to apologize for Brian, but I don't think he was trying to demean your efforts. Rather, I think he was trashing (no pun intended), the folks that are dumping garbage into Hickory Creek in the first place, and I think that's something we can all get behind.

Brian's not from St. Louis, and what the @#%@ would it matter even if he were? Does his geographic proximity to Hickory Creek mean he's not entitled to an opinion, or that he's not entitled to a negative opinion, or that he's not entitled to share his negative opinion? Who gets to decide that? What's the maximum distance someone can live from Hickory Creek and express an opinion regarding the stream? I know a couple folks in Springfield and one or two in Buffalo and Neosho that would agree with Brian's assessment of Hickory Creek, what's that mean? You live in Kansas, and you've never visited Hickory Creek. Does that mean your opinion regarding the stream (good, bad, or otherwise), is invalid too?

Here's how I see it: Brian took Hickory Creek out on a date. Not a bouquet of flowers and fancy dinner type of date, a twenty-minutes-during-lunch, hit the highlights and see if anything clicks type date. Fly fishing, speed dating style.

He took ol' Hickory out and came back with the opinion she was a trashy bucktoothed dwarf with a FUPA. That's his opinion, based on his experience, and by all means he's entitled to it. On the other hand, you may take her out and think she's incredible, a smart Jessica Alba effortlessly playing a 20 lb steelhead in hip boots in a string bikini. Someone to bring home to Mom and Dad. Neither opinion is necessarily wrong, just different, based on the individual's ideas of what makes a good stream, time spent and personal experience. Certainly nothing to get in a tizzy about.

As an aside, how is it that Brian's opinion of Hickory Creek is invalid since he only spent an hour on the water, yet that he didn't catch any fish on the stream in that hour is an indication of his fishing prowess?

[Guest]

deleted

[fishinwrench]

How about what you mother used to tell you, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything."

Just for the record: That wasn't MY mother that said that.....it was Thumpers.

[Chief Grey Bear]

That's his opinion, based on his experience, and by all means he's entitled to it.

So, I am not entitled to mine?

[drew03cmc]

Whether Chief is one of the most conservation-minded guys you've met has no bearing on whether or not what he said was inappropriate.

Ollie, I commend you for your efforts on Hickory Creek. I know how difficult it can be to maintain streams in urban areas, it's an uphill battle to be sure. That you sacrifice your free time to do it is laudable, and I sincerely thank you. I'm not trying to apologize for Brian, but I don't think he was trying to demean your efforts. Rather, I think he was trashing (no pun intended), the folks that are dumping garbage into Hickory Creek in the first place, and I think that's something we can all get behind.

Brian's not from St. Louis, and what the @#%@ would it matter even if he were? Does his geographic proximity to Hickory Creek mean he's not entitled to an opinion, or that he's not entitled to a negative opinion, or that he's not entitled to share his negative opinion? Who gets to decide that? What's the maximum distance someone can live from Hickory Creek and express an opinion regarding the stream? I know a couple folks in Springfield and one or two in Buffalo and Neosho that would agree with Brian's assessment of Hickory Creek, what's that mean? You live in Kansas, and you've never visited Hickory Creek. Does that mean your opinion regarding the stream (good, bad, or otherwise), is invalid too?

Here's how I see it: Brian took Hickory Creek out on a date. Not a bouquet of flowers and fancy dinner type of date, a twenty-minutes-during-lunch, hit the highlights and see if anything clicks type date. Fly fishing, speed dating style.

He took ol' Hickory out and came back with the opinion she was a trashy bucktoothed dwarf with a FUPA. That's his opinion, based on his experience, and by all means he's entitled to it. On the other hand, you may take her out and think she's incredible, a smart Jessica Alba effortlessly playing a 20 lb steelhead in hip boots in a string bikini. Someone to bring home to Mom and Dad. Neither opinion is necessarily wrong, just different, based on the individual's ideas of what makes a good stream, time spent and personal experience. Certainly nothing to get in a tizzy about.

As an aside, how is it that Brian's opinion of Hickory Creek is invalid since he only spent an hour on the water, yet that he didn't catch any fish on the stream in that hour is an indication of his fishing prowess?

Brian did not write the blog entry. Tucker did, as is evidenced by Brian's post earlier that he wouldn't have gone so far as to say what Tucker said. Wise was more tactful when he said that he didn't like Hickory either, without dropping obscenities on it.

So, Gypsy, some are entitled to their opinions, but others aren't? Honestly? I would think that someone that can consistently catch fish in our white ribbon streams between stocking truck visits is a better fisherman than someone that catches fish in trophy managed waters or waters which are more heavily managed, but that opinion is neither here nor there. Oh well, bicker away if you must. I will watch from the sidelines.

[ollie]

Ok, so it's only an opinion. We are all entitled to have one. I wish you could have seen this stream 10-20 years ago. You thought it was trashed now. Beleive it or not Hickory Creek was considered to be the next "RR" of SW MO. Things fell through and people didn't stand behind the concept. Last year I fished Crane downtown and I thought it was pretty trashy for a world renowed stream, but I wouldn't go as far as calling it a &*%$hole. I like someone who is a straight shooter, but with more facts behind what they say.

[patfish]

This thread started out killer .... it's a pointless thread now .... but ya gotta admit it's funny to read at least once. I ate at a restaurant in St. Louis a few months back ... it was a real ___hole. I probably won't go back ... I hope nobody's offended. Anybody got my back? PC

I agree this thread was killer and I've got your back PC.

So someone said they thought the place was a shithole, big deal! That's one less fisherman on "your" stream. I wish more people thought the places I like to fish were shitholes. There'd be a lot less a-holes to deal with.

What? You gotta have a beer summit every time someone gets their feelings hurt?

Man up kids! You're in control of what you read on here, but you don't have the right to not be offended by what someone else says.

SHEESH! This has been the winter of "rash threads". They just won't go away.... Ugh and I just contributed! :wacko:

I think its time for me to find a new playground.

[fishgypsy]

Brian did not write the blog entry. Tucker did, as is evidenced by Brian's post earlier that he wouldn't have gone so far as to say what Tucker said. Wise was more tactful when he said that he didn't like Hickory either, without dropping obscenities on it.

So, Gypsy, some are entitled to their opinions, but others aren't? Honestly? I would think that someone that can consistently catch fish in our white ribbon streams between stocking truck visits is a better fisherman than someone that catches fish in trophy managed waters or waters which are more heavily managed, but that opinion is neither here nor there. Oh well, bicker away if you must. I will watch from the sidelines.

In an earlier post, Brian said he was the one who fished Hickory Creek it this year, and that he shared the opinion of Matt. And you seem to have avoided my question: why does where they're from even matter? What bearing does that have on the value of their opinion? If Matt's opinion is somehow invalid because he's visited the stream but is from St. Louis, then what does that say about your opinion, if you're from out of state and have never been on the banks of the stream in question?

Chief- I guess I'm having trouble how you came up with your response. Did you read my entire post, or are you taking things out of context again? In the same paragraph I wrote: "Neither opinion is necessarily wrong, just different, based on the individual's ideas of what makes a good stream, time spent and personal experience" Certainly not endorsing one opinion over another, or saying only these people have a valid opinion. But I suppose you conveniently overlooked that. As an aside, can you PM me with a list of 20 or so streams you fish regularly? I have an idea for my blog.....

I don't see a problem with anyone expressing an opinion, I just think it's silly to jump down people's throats because their opinion may be contrary to yours, and descending into petty, personal attacks and mudslinging. It's ridiculous. And I can't wrap my mind around how Matt and Brian's opinions are offensive while Chief's rhetoric is "brash". What's the difference, and why is one okay and the other unacceptable? Can someone enlighten me?

Patfish, I love that quote- "No one has the right to never be offended," though I can't remember where it came from. And I'm down for a beer smmit. I'll even bring some to share

[Brian Wise]

Just for the record: That wasn't MY mother that said that.....it was Thumpers.

Took me a second....but THAT is good stuff!

On a side note, the video for Day 4 will be up soon. (couldn't resist )

[Buzz]

On a side note, the video for Day 4 will be up soon. (couldn't resist )

I already saw Day 4 the other day. I was sort of surprised that you guys picked Capp's Creek as the prettiest stream you had seen, but I have to agree with that.

Well, I'm off to Hickory Creek to catch some trout.